SAAB SUV

Dec 29, 2003 32 Replies

A suburb of Chicago. When I said that there aren't many US cars with stick shift, I ment to say US built cars, or US marques (I know those are two different things, but you probably get the idea). My secret agenda is to buy a GM product that qualifies for an employee discount through my father. GM didn't make anything in the '80s or '90s that I wanted to buy new. I wonder if they will make it 3 decades in a row offering nothing of interest to me.

I have been repairing my 9000 also, but as time goes by, the repairs are more expensive. I replaced the transmission at the beginning of the year. Who knows what will go next.

Same here. I might not _need_ the hatchback, but it certainly comes in handy when you want haul a lot of stuff.

Although I don't want a sedan either (I already have one of those, don't need another) I am not particularly fond of the frumpy appearance of a wagon. Some of them are OK. I looked at the Mazda Protoge5 because I used to own a GLC/323 hatchback. It was kind of nice, somewhat sporty looking and as a bonus, the radio was available with a MiniDisk player, which I think is a cool format.

That was kind of my reason for buying a used 9000. I had never owned a Saab before and didn't want to spend $40,000 on a new car that was always called "quirky" in car magazines. After owning it, I realized that any "quirks" Saabs may have are what make them so appealing. So when I was ready to buy a new one, Saab discontinued the 9000 and didn't offer a 9-5 hatchback, just a frumpy station wagon. Oh well.

I also considered a Subaru Impreza WRX wagon. The "wagon" part is so short, it nearly looks like a hatchback (if you use your imagination heavily). I was a little dissappointed in the lack rear seat foot room. I thought it was interesting/odd/ironic that this model is planned as the basis for the

9-2. I'm waiting to see if the result of this collaboration will result in anything worth buying.

They used to, even from Chrysler. But that was years ago when they handled like topheavy boats. And, IIRC, the manual transmissions were only available with the 4 cylinder engines, not the V-6's. I think all the 4 cyl's have been discontinued (at least in the US) even with automatic.

Just don't say you are thinking about getting an SUV, many of the Brits in this newsgroup will get on your case as if they were the vehicle usage police.

Someone once reported that Plymouth minivans had the lowest reliability rating of all the Chrysler minivans and, therefore, lowest resale value. It was pointed out that there was no difference among the Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouth minivans, except the amount of chrome trim and the price. The slightly lower initial price had a minor impact on the resale value, but reliability was a primary factor. The drivetrains offered on all the models were identical, yet Plymouths broke down more than Dodges and Chryslers. Why? It was found that the Plymouth buyers were penny pinching cheapskates that didn't perform maintenance as required. My opinion is that most cars are generally reliable if it is cared for properly (with a notable excption going to an Opel Vectra I drove last year ;-( but I wasn't responsible for its care).

I didn't realize you could get the Honda minivan with manual transmission.

From Volkswagen, the Golf would be more to my liking. Probably the GTI, but I would prefer 4 doors (actually 5 doors). Only the lower horsepower engine is offered in the 5 door Golf here. I would probably prefer the Audi A3 over the Golf. There is even a rumor that it might be sold in the US one of these years. Good luck with you selection.

Walt

Actually a 9-3. Don't know what happened to the message. Never had a problem with posts before. I was informing Raj900 that the SAABaru was the 9-2x.

It makes me all warm and fluffy inside to see we've trained you to have the proper neuroses. ;-)

A Happy SUV-Impaired New Year's Motoring to you all!

-- Andrew (Big Bad Brit) Stephenson

They're on a roll, aren't they?! I agree with your view of that company. Could they try any damned harder to produce so much that stirs so little interest?!

I only buy used, and this is a new model, so there won't be many of these around. But I'll check. The 9000 has LOTS of rear footroom, which is very rare. I fear the Mazda will fall short on that. And no one publishes this statistic, so I'll have to bring a tapemeasure.

I don't find station wagons frumpy, but obviously, it's a matter of taste. Look, station wagons are making a big comeback. Look how many yuppie station wagons are available now. There's Mercedes, Audi, VW, Saab, BMW, I can't remember the rest.

The Legacy is bigger. I test drove it, and it drove quite well.

I'm a very demanding and cheap car buyer. I want a lot of car for a little money. One thing I don't need, oddly enough, is lots of engine power. The Legacy Outback wagon I tried had the 2.5L 6-cyl engine, and it was far more than I need. I don't mind lots of power, but interestingly, I'll willingly do without it.

I'm with them. I think they're stupid vehicles, almost always purchased for the wrong reasons. I could buy something like a Ford Explorer, and then what would I have? A gas guzzler that handled like a boat that, for all its bulk, wouldn't have any more interior room than my 9000. I just don't get it.

See that's where the minivan is worth the compromise. It doesn't drive great, but it drives better than an SUV. It gets bad gas mileage, and it looks dorky, but for all that, you get a lot of room.

Thanks for that information. I'll probably skip the Chrysler (and Plymouth and Dodge).

You can't. I didn't say you can.

Thanks for all your input. The Passat is much bigger than the Golf. Remember, I'm talking about carrying luggage, four normal size people (my kids are 15 and 12) and a large dog. My 9000 is barely big enough now. I'd settle for something the same size and MAYBE something smaller like the Mazda, but I'm more likely to get something bigger.

I should look at other minivans like the Ford Windstar. Looks like a huge gas guzzler, though, but my mechanic, who specializes in Saabs, likes his wife's Windstar a lot.

[snip]

I haven't driven one, but I don't think it is too bad in the fuel department. The original Windstar was based on the Taurus platform. I believe the new version still is. I also own a Taurus (with the 220hp gas guzzling engine), and the highway fuel economy is almost as good (within about 2 MPG) as with my Saab. I would guess the size and weight of the Windstar might cost another 1 or 2 MGP.

So, where do you live in Joizy? I just came back from a 6 month assignment in Bergen county. My Saab and I visited Joe and crew at The Swedish Connection. They did excellent work for me, and even provided me with a "free" rental car for the day when the header pipe for my exhaust decided that it couldn't keep itself together anymore.

Walt Kienzle

1991 9000T 1990 Taurus SHO

I think the height of a vehicle (or really, the air drag) is a big factor, especially lately, now that engines are more efficient. I think the taller the vehicle, the worse is your mileage, and this seems to matter more than the displacement of the engine.

I live in Maplewood, in Essex County, near Newark. See

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Where is the Swedish Connection?

My mechanics are two brothers, who run an independent shop in Warren, NJ. They specialize in Saabs but they can work on anything. I've been going to them for MANY years.

There aren't a lot of them around, period. They weren't a roaring success for Mazda and you can find fairly new ones at good prices. I seriously considered one before I found the 9000. If that hadn't worked out, the P5 would have moved to the top of the list. Edmunds gives rear legroom if available. They do for the P5.

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(35.4 inches)And for the Passat Wagon
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(35.3 inches)Both are about 4 inches less than the 9000. snipped-for-privacy@madmousergraphics.com
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design, print design, photography

Around here many SUV have diesel engines, but this makes them even slower and noisier (generally). There are exceptions with smooth running 10 cyl diesels, but at exotic prices. A TV car program demonstrated how easy it is to get into a barrel roll with a SUV by e.g. a sharp avoidance manoeuvre on the motorway.

I'm proud of being nominated as "vehicle usage police". My first task will be to get a vehicle usage police car, naturally I've applied for a Hummer; that will show'em. :-)

The Swedish Connection is in Bergenfield, on Washington Ave, just south of the downtown area.

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They work on Saabs and Volvos. I thought that location was bold because a Saab dealer, Parkfield Motors, is less than a mile north of them on the same street. I saw quite a few more Saabs (and other expensive European brands) on the road in the tri-state area than I am used to in Illinois, so maybe there is enough business to keep everyone happy.

Interesting that you should mention diesel. I just saw a TV program that pointed out that less than 5% of the cars (including SUV's) in the US are diesel, but it is over 40% is Europe. Volkswagen is the only car maker that offers diesel in the US. Otherwise it is only available as an expensive, heavy-duty option on trucks. In addition to the disadvantages you mention, diesel engines typically require more frequent oil changes, and diesel fuel here is often priced about the same or more expensive than premium gasoline.

In the US, we have known for years (at least I have) that SUVs are top-heavy and much more likely to roll over than a car. About 10 years ago (or more) the Suzuki Sidekick and Geo/Chevrolet Tracker (same vehicle sold under different brand names) were rated as "unacceptable" and later shown on a TV program tipping from side to side as they were driven through an obstacle course with "outriggers" specially fitted to keep it from spinning wildly on its side. More recently, Ford Explorer models fitted with certain Firestone tires that had a high failure rate would flip over when a tire blew out. There was a brief period when sales of Ford SUVs and Firestone tires went down, but that doesn't seem to have any negative impact on sales anymore.

Good for you! I wish you luck in persuading SUV owners in your region to see the error of their ways. Maybe you can come to the US and continue your crusade to get those road-hogging, view-blocking, gas-guzzling, death traps off the road. I also want to point out that your policing activities in this newsgroup are somewhat pointless since all of us drive Saabs.

Hi, I know it is a bit late posting to this thread, but here is my 2 cents worth:

If you like the Impreza, try the 9-2- same car different body.

If you want an SUV, try the other Swede, the XC90. It has the newest thing in rollover protection, a gyroscopic based antilock break system. When ever it senses a body tilt of a certain percentage, it automatically applies the break in such away as to cause the car to right itself. It is almost imposable to topple the thing. Ford has been convinced and the system will be introduced in all of its SUVs in the next three years.

If you want reliability in a car and want a European brand, car get a Swede. A couple of recent studies from the Consumer Union (a non-profit, unaffiliated consumers group in the US) and JD Power & Associates have rated Saab and Volvo as the most reliable European brands sold in the US. None of the German brands did well at all and Mercedes was dead last for quality and problems per 1000 miles driven (in European cars) and near the bottom in all cars.

America has an aversion to diesels going back to the 70's when the American brands tried to introduce them. Unfortunately they sucked big time- loud, smelly and prone to breakdowns, right or wrong, they pretty much convinced the public that diesels weren't worth it.

Jeremy '85 900 (now gone) '86 900T (alive and kicking)

Wow, LauraK, thanks for pointing out that Edmunds lists rear legroom. I can't imagine how you can report that accurately and reliably, though, because there are many ways to measure it. It depends on the position of the front seat.

Another thing that I'm sure no one measures is the depth of the rear seat, i.e. the distance between the back and the "knee" of the seat. Most rear seats are shallower than front seats. Saabs have very deep rear seats, making for great comfort on long trips. This is because a greater surface area supports the legs, spreading the pressure over a larger area of the legs, reducing the amount of pressure at any given point.

Tom

My sister's 2001 Outback is quite nice. Could really use a turbo tho, esp. with auto. Not quite the handling or pickup of my 1993 9000CSET but about the same room and AWD plus similar mileage. Have you checked the reliability of VW? Rivals Dodge/Chrysler/MB, Audi (ie not good).

It's generally cruder than Sienna or Odessey with lower reliability.& gas mileage.

Reliability, reliability, reliability. US$13k for a 2000 40k mi. isn't too bad. Check

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