1998 Saturn SL2 timing chain

I have a 98SL2 with ~75K and since I've had the car (~40K) I've never had a problem with the timing belt. I haven't heard anything like this (3 other SLs in my family), and I also don't see anything about it on the list of TSBs.

BTW: does anyone know where to get the full text of the TSBs? All I can find is a list of TSB titles, except the 25$/year to alldatadyi.

-rj

98SL2

I've read that if the car has had normal oil changes and not allowed to run on low oil levels, timing chain life is really long - something like the life of the engine (which means different numbers to different folks). And I've also read they start making enough noise before they fail that most techs/mechanics can suggest it's time to replace. Since the valves don't clear the tops of the piston on the compression stroke, i.e. interference engine, you'll bend and break parts when the chain breaks. Not pretty.

My 97SL2 with 89,200 miles is on the original chain and is fine as far as I know - I think I hit 6,000 r's on a shift today merging onto the highway and everything stayed together... (grin)

I think Jonnie has it right. Oil is the lifeblood of an engine. I have a '94 with 157,000 miles and the chain is quiet. Since Saturns have a reputation for using oil, check it every few times you fill up your tank...until you get a feeling for how much oil you're using. My car is now using a quart every 1,500 miles. 2,000 miles when it was brand new.

She's getting old....

Barry

never

No timing belt on your car. It has a timing chain. They aren't known to break.

Ken

Apologies. I realized later that I meant chain, and not belt.

No apologies needed here. The only thing I'm concerned about is that a true neophyte (not you, you obviously have more knowledge then that) might change the serpentine belt and think they had changed a timing belt. If they were having a timing chain problem that could be a 'fatal error'.

Ken

It is true.

See:

The same mechanic, and owner of Saturn Services (now 6th Planet after Saturn threatened litigation), a well-regarded independent Saturn shop in Florida, suggests changing the chain at 70K miles for preventive maintenance: "saturn timing chains are failing at an alarming rate, i'm recommending to my customers to replace them at 75k as preventive maintenance. were now selling apx 4 engines every week now and most are due to t-chain failures. the twin cams are failing more than the single cams f.y.i."

OTOH, If you paid $1000, you're probably not going to want to spend $600-700 on a timing chain replacement, and you'll most likely go well beyond 100K miles. The odds are on your side that you won't have a failure. And as others have pointed out, a worn timing chain usually makes noise prior to failing, so you have some warning. However you don't have a frame of reference as to what the noise level should be normally, if you bought it used.

Just keep the oil level topped off (you're probably burning a quart or two of oil in a Saturn that old), and you'll get your money's worth.

A lot of people have been misled on this issue, a timing chain, even though it is steel, does NOT last the life of the car. As Tom and Ray state: "Timing chains do last longer, but not necessarily the life of the car. And when they do break, it's a big job and a lot of money to replace them, and "Now, with overhead-cam engines, it has to be 3 or 4 feet long, and for that kind of length, a belt is not only a lot quieter, but more reliable, too. When you use a chain for that kind of length, it's more likely to loosen up, slap around and eventually break." See

What is the kind of noise one should be noticing? Is it rumbling, rattling, gnashing, whining,...? Hopefully, I'll never need to use that information . . .

Ah. Something I can add my $0.02 worth:

About a year ago, I had the chain replaced on my 98 SL2 (about 38k on it, but all "hard" in town driving). It came on so slow, I never notice it. The engine noise (whirring/gear noise/roaring???) just kept getting louder and louder, but not a "bad" sound. The power dropped off so bad, it would down-shift on any slight hill/rise in the road. Mileage dropped off a little, but not enough to alarm me. Here in Texas, I use the A/C alot and mileage varies.

I thought the A/C compressor was getting loud/bad and dragging down the engine. Took it in to the dealer (I had the extended warranty about to run out in 86 days) and asked them to check it. They told me it was the chain that was going bad. It was about $1200 for them to do it, but it was covered. They also replaced the wires (covered). I had to pay for plugs and the injector cleaning. Service manager told me since the chain was stretched and the timing was so bad it was fouling the plugs and gumming up the injectors.

I keep the oil changed. It might go 3500 between changes, but it never gets too low. I use about 3/4 qt. in 3000 miles. So I usually don't have to add oil.

Now I have a question: Since the plugs and injectors needed replaced, I'd think the O2 sensors and other emission parts should need to be replaced also?

Rich

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Saturn timing chains in the 1.9L arent known for strength so yes they are known to break. Its a single roller chain that goes from the crank to one or two over head cam(s) so its longer than none ohc engines. I think there are many ways for these chains to go bad. One may be sticking valves which stress the chain. Lack of oil changes could result in more drag. Another thought would be a clogging oil passage that lubricates the chain. Either way frequent oil changes and not pushing the engine on a cold winter day until its warmed up can probably greatly improve the life of the chain.

breaking

alldatadyi.

pushing

In most cases that I've heard of, a timing chain breaking on a Saturn is from insufficient maintenance and/or abuse, as you have indicated. I bought my '96 SL2 after it had been repo-ed. I took a chance, since the prior owner didn't seem to have done much better on maintenance than they did on making their payments. Timing chain didn't break, but a piston did. I bought it cheap enough that a self-installed replacement engine made the total cost still reasonable enough. With regular maintenance I've had no problems at approx. 125,000 miles on the '97 engine that now resides under the hood.

Ken

The only emissions part that really might be susceptible to being clogged up due to a badly-running engine would be the EGR valve, they can tend to get carboned up over time even on normally running engines - it & its passages might need to be cleaned out. Other than that, the O2 sensor could get carbon deposits on it, but the exhaust temperature is high enough that they should be fairly easily burned off by a properly running engine.