And you thought STUDEBAKERS got rusty...

Here ya' go, MoPar fans. This is probably less than an hour's drive from my home, if anyone wants it checked out <GG>: Take a CLOSE look at
these detail photos before you next complain about Studebaker Swiss Cheese:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-plymouth-BARRACUDA-CONVERTIBLE-1970_W0QQitemZ4645181629QQcategoryZ6409QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-plymouth-BARRACUDA-CONVERTIBLE-1970_W0QQitemZ4645181629QQcategoryZ6409QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
yikes!
I think that falls under the category of "just mail me the VIN plates and trim and keep the rest..." use a donor car, indeed!
nate
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Good point Nate...
I wonder if that nice shovel is in that deal ??
Lansing
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Well, Nate, you can bet they're going to start tightening up on VIN plate transfers. Just wait 'till you see the July Hemmings Muscle Machines (I got mine yesterday as a subscriber). BIG article, naming names with photos, of a fraud case involving a freshly-generated VIN plate and a purported 1970 Hemi 'cuda sold through Hemmings Motor News for $80,000...advertised without having a hemi in it now, but still brought the money because it was a correctly-coded "R" in the VIN number. It's quite a story. BP
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I really dig the strap across the interior holding the hole dang thing together.
Mark 65 Cruiser http://home.alltel.net/anderm
snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

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OK, that brings up a question for discussion. What if the VIN plate was not "freshly generated" ? Let's assume the rust bucket on ebay was a real hemi and you bought it for the chassis, vin and body tags. You pull the body off the frame and restore it using a solid donor body moving the tags over to the donor. You install every unique Hemi bit and rebuilt it to the build sheet specs. Have you created a car, or restored one ?
snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

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JP/Maryland
Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com
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John Poulos wrote:

If you ask me, you've restored one, John. You didn't create anything that didn't already exist. The problem with the car in the July 2006 Hemmings Muscle Machines fraud report, of course, is that a new plate was made to create a car that never existed; that was never manufactured by Chrysler Corporation.
That SHOULD BE an entirely different issue than using the primary parts from a donor car to recreate a legitimate car that no longer exists as originally manufactured due to natural deterioration or collision and subsequent scrappage. The problem becomes convincing the various non-hobbyists at BMVs that there IS that dramatic difference, when they are more concerned with, and more used to dealing with, late-model cars involved in more traditional, if you will, late-model theft and fraud.
Personally, I don't think this bodes well for the hobby, quite frankly. But like everything else, if it is ruined, it will be by shysters within the hobby not conducting themselves ethically. So what else is new? BP
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The reason I asked, is I'm doing just that with a R2 GT that was terminally damaged in a hurricane. I bought a solid donor car for a body and I'm bringing it back. It is a slippery slope though, I know of Studebakers being "brought back" from just the engine, serial, body tag and title that the owner saved after scrapping the car.
snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

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JP/Maryland
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...and then there is that little issue of the "secret" serial number on the frame...
JT
John Poulos wrote:

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What do you do if it's unreadable on either frame ? I've only had a handful that I could find it on, mostly desert cars.
Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

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JP/Maryland
Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com
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If it ain't readable or there, then it's a non-issue.
JT
John Poulos wrote:

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Glad you didn't suggest swapping the frame and stamping in the number. <g>
Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

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JP/Maryland
Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com
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From a forensic point of view, a ghost image of the original stamping probably remains long after the original is unreadable. Some very anal customer probably would be pissed...
JT
(Not at all that fussy but others may be..)
John Poulos wrote:

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I intent to inform the buyer about how the car was restored with pix of both the donor and wrecked body. I did the same with a 66 Corvair Turbo a body shop wizard worked on. I gave him a rust free coupe body thinking he'd cut out patch panels. When I went to check on the car, I noticed the front tires were the nasty ones off the donor car, same with the dash and steering wheel. He'd cut off the back third of the turbo at a factory seam just in front of the back seat and welded on the front 2/3rds of the coupe. He cut the top off, even replicated the rag top header and moved the hog troughs and chassis braces over. Since the vin was in the engine section that was saved, that stayed. The new owner has won a bunch of trophies with the car and even the Corvair experts could not find a hint that it was two cars welded together. I gave him all the pictures from the body shop so he could show the sceptics how the car was saved. BTW, the Corvair judges agreed that it was a restoration and nicely done.
Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

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JP/Maryland
Studebaker On the Net http://stude.com
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That's far too much effort for me but routine for others.
I know that a lot of coupes (all makes) from the thirties ended up as convertibles when both were plentiful and becoming desirable.
I haven't followed the Corvair much lately and when last checked a few years ago, these cars were not bringing a whole lot of dough. Is this still the case?
JT
John Poulos wrote:

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Mine brought 13K 10 years ago, but it was the ultimate Corvair. (66 Turbo rag top, wood steering wheel, quick steering, wire wheel hub caps, AM/FM.
Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

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JP/Maryland
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I bought a '62 Fairlane in Buffalo from the little old man who bought it new. I was in high school, and he had all the original papers, with his name on them. Sharp car, black over red interior. He claimed it had 16K miles on it, the odometer said 16K, and the repair record (every receipt since new) said 16K. This was maybe 1971 or 72. Except for a cracked exhaust on the little six it ran great. I didn't get two blocks and the brakes went to the floor. Pulled into a garage, they put it on a lift, and Oh man, I,ve never seen rust like that. Everything destroyed. The steel brake line let go. We just replaced that one line (I was mopping floors for money at the time) got the brakes to work and drove it to the junk yard. Good news is I paid $100,which I thought was a steal. The frame was so thin I expected it to break in half. I think I got maybe $30 from the wrecking yard. And a good lesson.
KM
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

I agree with you completely on that one, Bob. Its made with already existing components. A friend of mine works at a 'professional' autowreckers. What I mean by 'professional' is that they pay rather high $$ for expensive wrecks, and their main clientele is auto body shops. The only sell an entire front clip, for example, not a piece of trim only from it, and any part that has to be removed to get at something else is tagged and inventoried. We all know there are lots of cars around that have had body repairs done to them over the years, but these days, VIN's are stamped in several places; not just in two or three spots. Therefore, it probably will not be uncommon to find a car to have a different VIN appear on a certain part of the car than what is on top of the dash and at the other end of the car. It will be interesting to see what extent "matching numbers" will mean a few years from now, and how the proverbial 'never been in an accident' statement is going to mean something when ALL the VIN's on the car match.
But as far as 'created' cars go? Just a few years ago, some Ferrari bodymen got busted for fraud by creating 'old' Ferraris from scratch. And the Italian government ordered them to be destroyed to show the seriousness of the crime.
Craig

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So when you sell it would you tell the buyer it was built from 2 or 3 or 4 cars.......or just neglect to mention it was rebodied?
Bob40

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I wish I knew how many cars provide parts for most of my restorations. I know the 57 Golden Hawk I did was built from at least a half dozen. Hood overlay off one, one front fender off another, rear quarters off a third and so on. The R2 GT Hawk may well be as many. For example, I don't know how many cars the replated chrome I've been buying came off of, nor how many cars donated parts before I bought the car.
Bob wrote:

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JP/Maryland
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