ABS pedal feel?

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On Jan 18, 6:54=A0pm, "Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" wrote: =2E...

I won't be dogmatic about it, but I don't understand the explanation. How can stopping distance be shorter with less traction?

Ben

Reply to
Uncle Ben

In further reading on the subject I found one case in which ABS takes more distance: braking on soft surfaces. Locked wheels push the soft material ahead forming a slight barrier. Otherwise, I believe that ABS always stops you shorter.

Ben

Reply to
Uncle Ben

Change always to often, and you're there.

Reply to
Bonehenge (B A R R Y)

Glad to see someone who has actually considered the facts here besides myself. There have been many tests done, many posted on the internet about stopping distances. I read one of the first, many years ago when BMW introduced ABS on cars where a magazine tested the same car with and without ABS. All you have to do is look for this information. Lots of tests also with the few motorcycles that offer ABS. Look hard enough, and you can read about aircraft ABS where it all started.

Measuring stopping distance is not that hard on a given surface.

In the case of snow, dirt, gravel, where all four wheels are on these surfaces, ABS can make stopping distances longer. Where I have always liked ABS is on mixed surfaces where maybe one or two wheels have good traction, and the ABS system can respond only to the wheels that have lost traction. Unless you can use four brake pedals at the same time, this will be hard for any driver to ever achieve.

I am on my 5th ABS equipped vehicle, and the next one will also have ABS.

Blair

In further reading on the subject I found one case in which ABS takes more distance: braking on soft surfaces. Locked wheels push the soft material ahead forming a slight barrier. Otherwise, I believe that ABS always stops you shorter.

Ben

Reply to
Blair Baucom

I'm with ya'!

I fly airplanes with and without ABS, and without ABS, it can be difficult to manage TWO brake pedals, and I have two feet.

It's all about control.

I wouldn't buy a car without it, either.

Reply to
Bonehenge (B A R R Y)

I'm with both of you. Most 'issues' with ABS are myths. Once the tires break loose there is actualy less traction and no control. I am on my third ABS-equipped car and will always have it; even if I have to pay extra for the option.

Reply to
JD

The first (I think) ABS brakes on aircraft in the UK were called Maxarets (the maker, I assume), installed on jet fighters in the 50's.

They were immediately popular with pilots because for the first time you could apply full braking in an emergency, or on a short runway, without fear of wheels locking up and bursting tires. I can never understand why they took so long to appear on cars.

I drive on snow and ice 4-5 months of the year now and find ABS brakes useful almost on a daily basis because one can use them to test how slippery a road is. By giving a quick jab to feel the point the ABS kicks in, one can easily gauge the state of the road without fear of losing control.

Reply to
eachcornerpulling

I'm not entirely sold on ABS either but IMHO being able to turn during an emergency stop is definately valuable. This past summer I had someone pull out in front of me from a parking lot while I was traveling around 45-50 and she compounded the problem by stopping in middle of the road once she saw me coming. There was no way I could stop in time and I distinctly remember wondering how far into her door my bumper was going to go. I ended up getting on the brakes hard until the last moment and then letting off and swerving around. ABS really didn't play any part but turning was certainly better than JUST slamming on the brakes and hoping for the best.

Reply to
Ray

It's a felling of comfort and confidence. I Wouldn't want to drive Your car if the car wore me out, having to tense different muscles than Should be needed to brake a car, like if the brakes are too sensitive your calves and ankle will have to tighten not to hit them too hard, and with a soft pedal that there is a lot of travel, you are pushing your leg further, and Hoping the brakes start to work. What's wrong with a Solid pedal that Starts working as Soon as pressure is applied?? No unncessary muscle tensing or extending to Do The Job. I always found too soft or sensitive, as bad as too hard. whether braking, steering, or ride. Both will tire you out.

Looked into replacing the dual stage booster with a Single stage one to Solve the problem, but the master cyl is different, and then the brakes will have to be bled, and with the ABS and Select Monitor, that's means the dealer doing it, and any grief about the change. Umm!! Guess I'll see how it feels disconnecting the booster, thought with disks, the pedal is supposed to be Really Hard, but one way to find out. I once looked at a new car with disks that power was an option. Guess I'll do it when I try pulling the ABS fuses. Would be Nice if that fixed the mushy pedal, but I'm doubting it. Sounds like many mfgs use the dual stage booster, and people who Like to Drive, Don't Like It...

VF

Reply to
houndman

I don't know how the Sube ABS is going to work in all situations, but what I have read is that ABS can be fooled, or not do what you think it would or should. Now it might be in odd situations, like braking going over a bump, but I have read many say that it does things you wouldn't want, and Extend braking distance, even on ice, and That's where I Thought I would want it. Maybe in an ideal situation For It, it is better, but my instincts tell me I Don't want it, or to be able to switch it on or off, and if I had a problem where I would have been better off without it, I would be pissed I didn't do what I'd planned to. I sure don't feel that confident in it.

VF

Reply to
houndman

Blair,

Have you had situations where you feel the ABS helped you avoid an accident? I read that the Ins Institute claims, 50% more likely to roll over, Because of the ability to steer when braking. Now, having Never hit anything only driving Non ABS cars, I look at the roll over danger more of a danger than steering being an advantage, and where I usually drive, there is No place to steer to anyway, and not hit something, so I'd want the shortest stopping distance, and I adjust to conditions of traffic and weather, which is probably why I haven't hit anything in 45yrs.

I got into an argument with a friend when complaining about how torn up bumpers get here in the city, by parallel parkers. The paint was rubber off on the corner of his bumper so I made a comment. He Must Hit cars when he pulls out, because he got Very irate and told me you Have to hit a car pulling out. I got irate back at him telling him I Don't, and can count on one hand how many times I even tapped a bumper. He called me a liar. If I tap a car when parking, I feel like an idiot, that I couldn't judge. My old Chevy gets the plastic end caps Peeled back almost every day. I took some mounting bolts off so they don't get creased any more than they are, till I can figure how to secure them to the metal bumpers. I want to put spikes sticking out. One side of my front one was always getting pushed in, and with another car, I could kick the opposite side, and square it up, with this Chevy, I need to get behind the bumper with a 3' long pipe and beat on it with a 5lb hammer for about 10min to get the bumper out. I tried slowly ramming it into a bridge abutment, after bruising my thigh, and breaking a parking light when kicking it. I wound up putting pieces of 2x3" between the bumper and the frame and haven't had to bang it out since.

VF

Reply to
houndman

The best example was when a car pulled out from the right on a four lane road and panicked and blocked the two right lanes with me heading at his door at 35 mph. I had only seconds to determined he was going to stay there and I was able to use maximum brake force and steer to the left of his front end.and miss him.

Many times I have avoided skidding into an intersection where the surface is mixed areas of ice, water and dry pavement with the ABS doing an excellent job getting traction with the wheels that are able to have traction.

I have rolled two vehicles. one 1971 Ford Maverick no ABS, and 1996 Ford Ranger XLT Supercab with four wheel ABS. Both times the rear passed me when friction was less going sideways than forward. Both rolled when they hit dirt with the tires going sideways. Both had light rears, that tended to break lose, and solid rear axles that contributed to the end result.

Would like to see a report comparing rollovers to type of rear axle as this was one of the main changes to the Ford Explorer after the high incidences of rollover.

Just steering does not make a car rollover if you look at slalom results around cones at speed, most pass the Consumer Reports slalom course except the Suzuki Samurai a few years back. Most stunts to rollover a vehicle involve a mortar to help get it to roll.

I found this tidbit, "NHTSA notes that 90 percent of rollovers happen not on pavement, as in this test, but when the vehicle leaves the road. " from this article:

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This compares to my experience as both of my rollovers where after leaving the road.

Blair

Reply to
Blair Baucom

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