Hesitation & surging in 2006 Forrester

It's "new" and the problem will work itself out...yeah...thats Subaru thinking.......

I presume that when you say bucking & surging you mean when you do not apply ANY throttle? If that is the case then maybe something is slightly holding the throttle up from full off. Is the floor mat causing this as it did in my 2000 Forester? When the throttle is full off then all fuel to the injectors should be zero and no surging. Let us know what you find. Ed

I had that on my '01. Never took it in for that particular problem but:

- had a bad O2 sensor shortly after

- had tranny fluid flush/fill that wasn't filled enough

Once both items were fixed, the problem went away and never came back. I THINK it was the O2 sensor not knowing how to idle right and then confusing the tranny. But there was a computer reprogram (not what they called it, but that's what it is) done as part of a recall item. So your mechanic may be right.

But I did mess around in detail with the tranny fluid level (all sorts of angles and temps) and came to the conclusion there are LOTS of knooks and crannies in there and that the guy filling the thing at the dealer could very well underfill it while at the same time following the instructions to the letter. It took about 3/4 quart before it started acting right again. (Did an ounce or two at a time to not overfill.)

You wouldn't expect the 02 sensor to go, but mine is an '01 and this all happened at the end of '03.

Just about the only thing you can do your self, see if the ECU is throwing any codes, and check the fluid level repeatedly (follow instructions in the manual). You might find one day its normal, but the next day it's low off the scale... if it is.. you might just need fluid. Mine jumped around from "overfull" to "none left" and back... once the fluid was topped off enough though, it stablized and stayed steady at "full")

Will it exhibit the problem for another driver?

Have you tried another Forester?

I would tell them it is a warranty issue and they should get you another car to drive while they are investigating it. If it cannot be resolved in 3 weeks or so, they should replace you're car.

be firm. Ask everyone you encounter how THEY would feel if it was happening to them.

good luck

Carl

Hi Carl, yes, another driver has reproduced the problem, EASILY. Even passengers can feel tihs problem when it's happening.

The dealership is planning to give me a car when they have mine for the next appointment.

The car is certainly under warranty. What qualifies as a malfunction under which the warranty can be used as the legal basis to force them to give me another car? Doesn't that vary from state to state, under the lemon laws? As best I can tell, I have to give them a chance to fix it, then I have to give Subaru of America a chance to fix it, THEN subaru of America can offer (not MUST offer) to buy the car back. If Subaru does not offer to do that, I have to take them to court under lemon laws. What fun!

I have been very firm, telling them that after this next appointment they MUST get the vehicle fixed. If they cannot, I have told them I want them to replace the car. No one, of course, has said yes or no to that.

Man, it really takes the fun out of getting a new car :-{

Ed, I can either be coasting downhill or giving it a steady supply of gas, and the problem still occurs. Seems to be a bit worse when coasting.

Thanks for the floor mat hint....I went out and checked mine immediately, but it seems well clear of the gas and clutch pedals.

But it is funny that you mention this. When the car is cold, and I am backing it out of the garage in reverse, it revs up very, very high. I have to take it back down into neutral and hope I have enough momentum to coast out of the garage.

Then when I am going down my (steep, steep) driveway, it does the same thing in first, that is, revs up very very high even though I am not giving it any gas. I have to put it into neutral until I am at the bottom of the driveway on level road.

To me, both these situations sound like what you mean when you say, the throttle is full off, no fuel to the injectors, should be zero surging. But this high reving is sort of like the surging problem. I haven't griped about it because, well, the engine only does it when its cold.

I do hope you have clearly described this symptom to the Subaru people. It could well be an important clue in fixing the overall problem.

Good luck!

Larry Van Wormer

It sounds like something that happened to my 2000 Outback, but it seems to happen only when starting sometimes. It was a problem with the throttle sensor.

Yousuf Khan

Yeah - but 'a chance to fix it' likely would NOT include having YOU drive it until some decision is made on their part! I mean, have we come to the point with CARS that we have to wait until the next version update to get rid of the bugs in the software?

I think many states have lemon laws that require the exact same problem be worked on by the dealership 3 times within some period like 3 months or something. So, if they insist on making you keep the car, just drive to the next nearest dealership the next weekend, make the tech ride with you and document the problem. Find a third dealership the next weekend - then go insist they keep your car and give you another one. I bet a REAL car guy could find this. Too many techs just want to read a code and then follow the procedure for that code.

Carl

1. The real question is if other cars that are the same also do this. The dealer should be able to let you test drive or borrow another of the same model. Not similar, the same except for color. If it does the same thing then it is a design problem and required an engineered fix the dealer cannot do. If it does not do the same problem you have something "broken" that can, and should, be fixed by the dealer.
2. Be careful about being "firm" with the dealer. Complex products like cars and computers sometimes have strange problems that take a bit of work to fix. Trading a new one for aother one has many legal and accounting issues so it is not something done lightly. If you work with the dealer to find the problem most folks will work with you. On the other hand if they get the feeling you are jerking their strings many folks will jerk back. It is amazing how stupid some very smart techical people get when they thing they are getting jerked around by a customer. "This is unaceptable because it's unsafe, how are we going to fix it?" gets one a lot farther that "Take this junk and shove it".

In article , ssslither9 @yahoo.com says...> Any advice?

Get documentation every time you go in to dealership.

Start and keep a phone log.

If you really want to be rid of that particular vehicle, send a letter (two copies,certified & first class) to dealership, if your case doesn't meet the lemon-law standard yet.

nothermark, thanks for the comments.

When I go in at the end of the month for the computer analysis, I will get a loaner car for a day. I think I'm going to go ahead and request that it be a 2006 Forrester, then I can do as you say and determine if the situation is the same in all forresters. But for gosh sakes, wouldn't you think the dealer would do the kind of testing you describe...wouldn't you think they'd want to know if all Forresters have the problem? Rather than me requesting they do the test?

On the second point: I don't think I have been rude or insulting to them, just firm and "on message" that if they can't fix it I want another car. But speaking of being jerked around: at one point, the head of the service dept. at the dealership told me the corporate technicians were busy the rest of this month, and requested that I "give him a call after the holidays" to remind him to set up my appointment in December! Well, this did gall me...here was my new car with a confirmed problem, and THEY want ME to call and remind them to fix it! I complained, and now I have a November appointment, without having to "remind" them. Is this what one has to do to get reasonable service?

I guess what would have made me happy is for some representative of the dealership to tell me "if we cannot fix this problem, you will get another car". If I had heard that, I would give them quite a bit of leeway in time, etc. But now I do feel that THEY are jerking ME around, and you are right, it begins to feel antagonistic.

I am going to document everything (thanks to the poster who reminded me of that) and will remember to not let it get personal. sigh.

nothermark wrote:

You are getting jerked around, the question is why. That was why I cautioned you to be carefull. I would also document as was pointed out. I don't know why they are taking so long unless they think either the problem or you will go away over time. My thought on the loaner is that when you take it back you will be in a position to know if it is your car or all of that model. That knowledge will be most helpfull in the ensuing conversation. If they are the same a like for like replacement won't solve the problem so engineering needs to fix it and/or you need a different vehicle. If it's fine then they should be able to fix it and any lemon law issues should be covered.

I don't think anyone short of the owner of the dealership could tell you what you want to hear and I don't think he would if he could help it as he would be eating the cost. He can't do that much and stay in business.

It sounds to me like it may a problem related to the engine computer. It also sounds like they don't have a fix yet and are stalling until they have the correct fix. Getting another car will probably get you no where. Better to eventually fix what you have.

That's my take on it. Do you want a car that has a fixed problem or another one that has no problems fixed yet? Better the devil you know....

Mike

UPDATE: Subaru of America REFUSES to acknowledge that my car is malfunctioning!!

After SOA technicians hooked up my car to their computers and took it for a test ride with my salesperson on November 30, my salesperson (to whom I had demonstrated the problem) called me and said that he was able to demonstrate the problem to the techs, who had acknowledged it was a problem. So they were able to collect data from the engine.

When I went to pick up my car that day, they said, well, we have seen this problem in one other Subaru Forrester 2006, We should have a computer fix for you within 4 to 8 weeks.

Needless to say I wasn't happy that I had to continue to drive this car for 4 to 8 weeks. However, I was floored by the phone call I got today from Subaru of America. They said they had determined that my car is functioning normally, and they are closing my case!!

I am just astounded. I really thought either the dealership or the corporate parent would deal with this problem. Clearly, I now have to sue them. If anyone has any advice or help in dealing with this, I would appreciate it.

I just talked to my salesman and he offered to "testify" for me if I needed him. He said he personally would test every Subaru Forrester

2006 before selling it to some other poor sucker. Can you imagine????

DO NOT BUY CARS FROM SUBARU - or if you do, be very, very careful!!

Still ANOTHER unhappy Subaru customer...... Subaru's motto is....... We dont care.....we dont have to! We are Subaru!

My condolances...

You might post your story and check links to lemon laws by state at;

Did you personally drive a Forester that behaved 'normally'? I would insist the region guy take a ride in both vehicles. If they won't, or if in the face of the obvious they still are unconvinced, then just ask for the legal dept. I guess. If your city has a 'consumer advocate' dude on TV - that could be another avenue to explore. Seems a shame to have to go to some extreme for a problem you can demonstrate to a tech.

good luck

carl

Hey carl, no, I did not drive different Foresters to see if they exhibited the problem. I did not notice this problem when I test-drove the vehicle I purchased. When SOA tested my car on 11/30, I asked that the loaner car be a 06 Forester, so I could do just as you suggest, but was told they did not have a manual on the lot. Hmm.

As for "insisting" on anything, that does not seem to be an option at this dealership. I tried "insisting" that they fix my car, and it got me nowhere! I tried "insisting" that 4 to 8 weeks was too long to wait for a computer fix - ditto. Asking for the legal department? No, I didn't do that...I asked for the service manager at one point and was told he would not be in for an hour. I didn't wait, figuring that my "insisting" was getting me nowhere so far, why should I expect that the service manager would listen to reason? Ah, it's just been one long comedy of errors (theirs).

Subnote to the story: when SOA called me today to tell me they were closing my case because the consider the car to be driving normally, they offfered me a $1000 "customer gift certificate" (or some other term, can't recall exactly), I suppose in lieu of exercising on my rights! Wonder what I would have had to sign to get that $1000!