Hybrid Subaru engine?

My mind always wrestles: WRX or hybrid? WRX or hybrid?

I guess the greener side is starting to win, but I'll be a Subie driver forever (got a '99 Forester for now :). Has anyone caught word of Subaru developing a hybrid engine?

Bryan

Reply to
Bryan
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Then hybrids I see on the market are not all that "green". TG

Reply to
TG

Especially when you consider all that lead and acid they're toting around.

Tony

Reply to
Anthony

It's all relative. Ideally we wouldn't be driving cars, right? I figure 30+ miles per gallon is better than Then hybrids I see on the market are not all that "green". TG

Reply to
Bryan

Plus, I imagine they do not get all their electric power from wind-driven generators, do they? Some may even have consumed "contaminated" energy that came from fossil fuel! (gasp, etc., you mean like coal, refined petroleum products? Oh tell me it isn't so.)

Reply to
GTT

Well, actually the hybrids get the electric power from the vehicle itself when coasting or decelerating. TG

Reply to
TG

We get 24-26 on highway in my fiancee's WRX. I drive it conservatively, when I get on it of course the mileage goes in the crapper. So the Subaru's do get decent mileage. The problem is the F-350 type trucks and the big SUV's that all get single digit gas mileage. I think as long as you steer away from those you are doing good enough.

Jason Kavanaugh

Reply to
Jason Kavanaugh

One of us is missing something. I asked if they were still consuming energy from fossil fuels. Your reply seems to argue that point.

Agree the hybrids can store energy during coasting or decelerating, but I'm not sure how you believe they got up to speed in the first place without the energy from fossil fuels? Do you see what I'm trying to say?

Seems to me they MUST consume energy from fossil fuels in one form or another. So they are, as an earlier post said, "Not all that green."

wind-driven

Reply to
GTT

Another point to consider is that a conventional car with that meek of performance would also get about the same mileage as the more expensive hybrid. Like the Suzuki Sprint (aka Geo Metro.)

Reply to
Anthony

You are.

They do consume fossil fuel (no argument about that), but that doesn't make them any less "green".

A normal car, going once around the block, burns some amount of gas and dissipates *all* the energy into heat: some part of it goes into rolling resistance (heating the tires and the pavement), most of it goes into heating the brakes (and the air around them).

A hybrid car doesn't heat its brakes: it uses the "excess" energy to recharge its battery instead (regenerative braking). On the next trip around the block it need not use any gas at all, it could just use the excess battery charge saved from previous trip.

In all situations where a lot of braking is required (mountain driving, city driving, LA stop-and-go freeway driving) a hybrid car will be *much* "greener" (when measured by MPG).

That's why trolleybuses make a lot of sense in San Francisco (lots of steep hills, frequent stops).

According to BC Transit Vancouver, tolleybuses are at least 2.5 times more energy efficient, than diesel buses (which in turn are about

10 times more energy efficient per person than a private auto):

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Cheers,

Reply to
Paul Pluzhnikov

Of COURSE hybrid engines still consume fuels. They have chemical batteries, they have parts that don't sound all that conservation-friendly etc.; I don't understand all the little jabs after the original post, but I guess that's the beauty of newsgroups.

What's missing, "GTT" is the answer to my original question: Did anyone hear if Subaru is planning a hybrid engine????!!! A simple "no" would've sufficed.

I appreciate all the input (both sarcastic and constructive) that makes this newsgroup so interesting, and at the risk of more flames I'll just say this to close the original thread:

I'm sticking with Suabrus, I'll look for a WRX, and now it's time to go skiing.

Have fun y'all.

B
Reply to
Bryan

I misunderstood, I have heard people talk about the consequences of producing electricity for a purely electric vehicles and I thought that is what you meant, sorry. TG

Reply to
TG

Meek? The Civic hybrid will blow away either of my Legacys and get way better mileage doing it. Hybrids have come a long way. Now the Metro or Toyota Echo...those are meek and very plain Jane..not much of a car. The Civic is real nice car. TG

Reply to
TG

1) The batteries in the current crop are NiMH. 2) Even lead acid batteries are CONTAINED and RECYCLABLE. If you take into account the fuel savings, the amount of emissions NOT put into the atmosphere exceed the contents of the batteries. 3) I figure pollutants dispersed into the air are worse than pollutants contained in a nice little box where they can be reprocessed.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

-DanD

Reply to
Dan Duncan

Hybrid electrics get their power from the same place as regular cars.

They burn gasoline. (until they progress to burning diesel or LP or NG)

The point is they burn LESS gasoline to accomplish the same task. (IE, they are more efficient)

-DanD

Reply to
Dan Duncan

Your information is years out of date.

There are hybrid designs with far superior performance to their normally powered counterparts. 2 examples can be found here:

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Both above designs differ considerably from the available crop of hybrid electric cars, and I consider them to be FAR superior. They use electric motors at the wheel, run on diesel, and don't directly couple the engine to the wheels so the engine can run at a fixed rpm for peak efficiency and lowest emissions.

I hope cars will follow their lead in the near future.

-DanD

Reply to
Dan Duncan

Oh! So you're one of those guys who expects a direct answer to a simple question, huh? Well, those can be hard to find! But you're correct about the beauty of newsgroups as well as about other points you've made.

Simple answer to your question -- as you state it below -- is this: I HAVE heard Subaru is researching a hybrid, but whether the source was an authority, I can not say.

Another feature of newsgroups is that the information you get is worth what at least what you paid for it. I've never been interested much in a hybrid at this point in my life so I relegated that to the "rumors heard" file and moved on.

I still have problems believing a hybrid can win any sort of performance comparison with a working Subaru or Accord or Suzuki. Just before I bought my 04 Forester, I test-drove a Honda and talked at length with the salesman about the current Honda line-up. When asked about their hybrid, he was very definite in saying that he'd driven them and would personally not buy one because of their poor performance and comfort. (I took that to mean "room to sit comfortably.")

After someone who should know some facts came up with that opinion, I stepped back, again, from thinking favorably about a hybrid. I drove two new Hondas, then bought a Forester.

In the interest of trying to be helpful, I'll repeat your question and see wha' hoppens.

Does anyone know if Subaru is planning a hybrid?

Reply to
GTT

wind-driven

Okay, Dan, I can accept that and agree with it.

I suppose the basic questions come down to "can I afford that level of efficiency?" and "Am I willing to live with the levels of comfort and convenience that come with that level of efficiency?" If the answer to both questions is "yes" then one begins to move in that direction.

Since I consider reliability to be a major factor in "cost" then I'd also want to know more of the unknown costs of maintaining such a vehicle. I've replaced a Nickel metal hydride battery in my phone for $60 and wonder about the cost and reliability of a NiMH battery sized to power a car? An uneducated guess would be several thousand dollars. But it is an unknown (to me), as is the expected battery life.

I do not care how attractive the car is, or how efficient it might be. Before I invest $25K in a car, I'd have to know a lot more about such factors as reliability and costs of maintenance.

Reply to
GTT

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Carl

1 Lucky Texan

Bryan wrote:

Reply to
Carl 1 Lucky Texan

what about the pollutants required to recarge these beauties?

the only way to accurately value total pollution output is on a well-to-wheels basis.

Ford has a motor for the Focus that is cleaner than a Prius when calculated well-to-wheel. California agrees and grants is a zero pollution rating.

the engine just happens to have more torque and not much less hp than a svt!

Reply to
mac

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