Manual Driving. Lesson #1

Ok. I have been following a few different threads lately that talk about RPM speeds, and "what cars were meant to be driven" at, etc, etc.

I am 34 i taught myself stick at age 16. I have been driving stick since then. I do it alittle different though. so my questions are below.

Ok. say for example i am driving down a city road around 45MPH. i would be in 5th gear, with RPM between 1 and 2.

Should i be in fourth, with the RPMs around 2 and 3 or even third with RPMs at 3.5?

Of course if i was in 5th and i wanted to pass, i would drop to 3rd and hit it. I thought that was the advantage of having a stick. But it seems some people would just be in third to begin with.

Second. in th e above example. wouldn't i get crappy milage if i was in third? same distance lots more RPM= crappy gas milage... right?

Third. Somene was reciently talking about turning. he stated that you should brake just going into the turn to give the turning tires "bite" from the weight transfer. makes sence. With a manual would he stay in gear the whole time? or back in gear after he lets off the brake so he can rocket out of the turn?

I have always automatacally pressed the clutch when breaking, well unless it is just a slight decrease in speed. Should i not be doing this? Due to loss of traction? or for whatever reason?

Thanks for taking the time to read, and hopefully respond, to this

Mike

Reply to
Michael Smith
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My opinion. You can lay on the brake without disengaging the clutch until your RPMs drop to something close to idle. Of course if you don't disengage the clutch in time the car with stall. You can play this game and downshift through the gears to use a lot of engine braking instead of wheel braking.

Mark "who got 90,000mi on VW Jetta brakes once"

** Due to SPAM I no longer receive email responses to ** newsgroup postings, so don't bother.
Reply to
Abe

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:56:36 -0400, Michael Smith scribbled:

Personally I change into 5th around 80km/h (50mph) and my revs are around 1700rpm), then I'd change back down to 4th when the revs drop to 1500rpm, which by then would be around 70km/h (44mph). I try not to drive the car at such a gear where the engine would be at 1500, as the car labours when you accelerate.

There's no harm in being in 5th to get better milage, I try to be in a higher gear as possible. If you want to pass you can easily just change gear and go for it.

I personally wouldn't have been in 3rd, I would be in 4th or maybe

5th.

That's right. You could always make a comprimise between driving for better gas milage, or driving to get performance.

It seems logical to brake so the weight is transferred to the front wheels for a moment while it corners, which results in better traction. I would drop down a gear just before I enter the corner, and get acceleration as I exit the corner, if I accelerate too much, I get understeer.

I personally wouldn't be pressing the clutch until you coming to a complete standstill. If you are slowing down, it's a good idea to slow the motor down too, afterall, you don't want to suddenly brake and put your foot on the clutch, but the engine revs stay the same for a moment, and if you accidentally let out the clutch again you'll leap forward.

No worries, hope I helped.

Cheers, Phil

-- Phillip Weston Taumarunui, New Zealand

Remove the obvious spamblock to reply via e-mail.

Reply to
Phillip Weston

Thought it wouldn't hurt to add a few words about this point, to the other good answers you have received:

The basic point to remember, the tires will generate only so much traction, based on the surface conditions and the forces applied. You won't get better cornering ability by the method you outline. In fact, in conditions of limited traction, it could reduce cornering ability.

When I'm cornering, the only time the clutch is used is when I'm shifting to keep the engine in a good rpm range. I do use the clutch early when simply coming to a halt, after dropping through the gears. In a panic stop, without time to shift down (very rare, thankfully!) I'd automatically depress the clutch, to keep the engine running.

Larry Van Wormer

Reply to
Larry Van Wormer

I don't know what I'll eventually get on my 1997 Legacy Outback's original brakes. So far I've gotten 229,000 km and the pads and disks are still in good shape. And yes, the Outback *does* get driven quite fast under appropriate conditions.

David, strong believer in 5-speed manual transmissions

Reply to
David or Jo Anne Ryeburn

It depends largely on personal preference, and how you like to drive. If I'm toodling along a country road at 45mph, I'm in top gear because I'm unlikely to need to make any quick changes in velocity. If I'm taking my time at 45mph on a city road, I'm probably in 4th gear, because the car is more responsive with the revs up a bit, and I'm more likely to want to accelerate suddenly in order to make a lane change or avoid a hazard. If I'm in a hurry (or just havin' fun) then I'm probably in 3rd gear, with the engine revs in the meat of the powerband, so I can squirt and shoot with authority. There's nothing wrong with driving in the city in top gear, then downshifting to pass, it just takes longer.

I was taught (back in the 60's) that you shouldn't "lug" an engine because you'll build up carbon deposits. Running it hard occasionally would blow those deposits out. I doubt this is still true with modern materials and fuels.

Not necessarily. Driving low in the rev range, out of the powerband, means that bigger throttle adjustments are necessary to produce a certain acceleration. Higher revs means more power, and smaller throttle openings. Every motor has a rev point of peak efficiency, I suppose.

Look at clutching (shifting) and braking as different functions, both related to speed. Braking is used to reduce speed, which necessitates shifting to a lower gear. Only disengage the clutch if you need to shift gears. Otherwise, leave the clutch engaged so engine braking will help you slow down. Having the clutch engaged also helps to stabilize the car while transitioning from brake back to throttle.

If I'm stopping, then I'll just disengage the clutch and stop, then select first gear again.

Hope this helps, all IMHO, YMMV, etc. ;-)

...Ron

Reply to
Ron Ginter

For most city driving, I have a very simple rule of thumb on shifting:

Check the speedometer, divide by ten, then add 1, giving you:

10 MPH = time to shift to second 20 MPH - shift to third 30 MPH - shift to fourth 40 MPH - shift to fifth

That is sensible shifting. Whenever you get bored with being sensible, just floor the gas pedal and keep shifting upwards as you roar past the above markers :^)

Reply to
Charles Gillen

I like to keep the engine in it's power band. I can't speak for the Subaru 2.5L engine (at least not until next week :-) but on a Corolla 1.6L AWD wagon I keep the RPM's between

3 and 4000.

In my mind the engine is more efficient in the proper gear with the intake hardly open (if you can still say this with fuel injected engines) than in a higher gear with the intake wide open trying to make up for the wrong gearing.

Especially if you accelerate, even just a bit. In a gear too high you have to open the intake more, which causes too much fuel to be used (again, my experience is with carbs).

So, I may be wrong, but in my mind an engine running easily at a higher RPM will be more fuel efficient than one slugging along at too low an RPM.

Also, with a manual, the idea is to use the brakes as little as possible. In the proper gear if you press the pedal the car accelerates and if you let it go, the car decelerates. The really nice thing about AWD is that this fine control is present on each wheel, which makes for a very balanced and enjoyable ride.

If you're in too high a gear and let your foot off the gas pedal, you'll just coast like with an automatic transmission, and have to use the brakes to slow down.

If you're in the power band, most driving is thus done with the gas pedal. It's worth practicing downshifting (you have to raise the rpms a bit while the clutch is disengaged so that when you let the clutch out, the engine is already turning at the proper RPMs for the lower gear. With practice you can continue engine braking this way smoothly down the gears. (and heads will turn at the cool sounding engine noises :-).

Another advantage of being in the power band is that should you have to accelerate, everything is already just right and response is instantaneous.

Reply to
Paul Pedersen

Also because it's hard on the crank and rod bearings (more pressure and more time for oil to squeeze out at lower rotational speed allowing metal-to-metal contact) - still a consideration. Also detonation damaging pistons and bearings - but knock sensors and computers take care of that issue now - but why force it into a retarded timing/less efficient operating mode? Best from all considerations to keep the revs reasonably up (no extremes one way or the other).

Yep - adds to brake life.

Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")

Reply to
Bill Putney

The most important thing about cornering with so-called stick, is that you should brake and change gears BEFORE entering the turn. Obviously changing gears/braking/riding on the clutch while in a corner gives you less control and time to react, and can be dangerous.

Few other points:

You can drive as slowly as you like in top gear, just "listen" to your car. It will tell you whether its happy or not, by shuddering, rattling or knocking.

Also: never keep your changing hand resting on the gear lever or your foot on the clutch- the little pressure adds to wear.

PS: Here in SA, we all get taught "stick", since you may not manual stick cars if you got yor license with an auto.

Reply to
André Conradie

Additionally, lugging the engine increases time/fuel during each power stroke increasing heat. Some cooling occurs just by getting the exhaust gasses outta there.

Carl

1 Lucky Texan

Bill Putney wrote:

Reply to
Carl 1 Lucky Texan

The owners manual should have a little diagram showing what gear to use at various speeds. I tend to run the engine between 2,000 and 4,000 rpm. ('92 Subaru Legacy, 2.2L 16v, 5sp, AWD, 210k miles). I get about 28mpg city, 32mpg highway.

jw milwaukee

Reply to
J999w

Paul Pedersen wrote: ...

Gasoline engines are most efficient at wide open throttle and low rpm. Period.

However, as has been mentioned above, lugging an engine will lead to premature wear. So if you keep the rpms too low, especially under power, you may save a tiny bit on gas, but your engine may only last

100,000 miles rather than 200,000.

- D.

Reply to
TransFixed

Hi, I think my definition of efficiency is best MPG. Maintaining highest manifold vacuum is it. Vacuum gauge on the dash is very useful. Tony

Reply to
Tony Hwang

You're both correct.

The reason you're talking past each other is that the engine in your car is far too powerful for the job it is doing most of the time. You'd get

*much* better fuel economy by driving a car with a 500cc engine that needed your foot flat to the boards in order to do 65 mph. You just wouldn't enjoy it. Bu then that applies to always keeping a high manifold vacuum too :-)

A small engine with nitrous or a turbo is a good compromise.

-- Bruce

Reply to
Bruce Hoult

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