Reliability -- miles vs. years

My opinion would be the newer car, as it will have a stiffer structure, more safety features, more standard equipment in general, better electronics, etc. Of course, it will be heavier and more complex as well.

The corollary to your question is, given equal mileage, is it better if it's mostly highway or mostly city??

Dan D '99 Legacy L 30th (son's) Central NJ USA

Some good questions....

Neither! There is usually a good reason people are dumping these cars. READ here a lot, then read it again. Fact is they are trouble prone, especially at that mileage. Head gaskets are a MAJOR problem. A lot of your answers are posted in this forum.Some are so "brand-loyal" they will defend the Subaru badge with honor, even if the car is a totally unreliable piece of shit.Some say they never have ANY problems, others have engine,trans problems. Subaru has shirked all responsibility for ANY problems they can get out of. Some "Problem" areas.....

Head Gaskets, engines wont make it to 100,000 miles without blowing them Oil Leaks, all over and especially around the miles your looking at. Cooling system, complete joke! prone to failure/hotspots,designed by idiots. Windshield cracking...due to poor workmanship/body flexing Electrical System...a motorcycle has a bigger alternator! WAY too small. Air Conditioning...Anemic at best, bring sweatrag for summer driving. Fuel injection...leaks in cold weather. Subaru knows and wont fix it (cheap parts) Poor workmanship...Wind whistles,rattles very sloppy Paint, cheap/cheesy..too flimsy it chips if you look at it. Engine maintenance...close to impossible, takes HOURS to change plugs,special tools required. Body parts,sheetmetal...expect PLENTY of hood, doordings.WAY too thin. Fuel economy, POOR at best considering size/weight..17 to 23MPG Parts support? POOR and VERY expen$ive, Subaru is not your friend. Trade in Value, POOR (unless you want another new Subaru) you are going to own it for a long time or take a real beating on it

If you are looking for a long time investment,a reliable car, easy to work on/low cost... this is NOT the car for you...

If you want a "toy" to f*ck around with, to modify, to race on street/dirt and consider it a throwaway..this *IS* the car for you. When modified *CORRECTLY* they are fast, but most come unglued often and there is more to *Modding* a car than bolting on crap under the hood and a STUPID whaletail on the trunk (that does absolutely nothing) except advertise the driver has a small penis.Most serious "tuners" will take that piece of shit off and replace the trunklid.

If you want a *Real* musclecar...look elsewhere. You can build a fast daily driver that's reliable, run on regular unleaded gas and wont blow up every

25,000 miles.

If you must have AWD...look elsewhere.....Subaru is not the only one with it.

Many seem to argue argue that the late 90's 2.2L engine is more trouble free than the 2000-2004, based on my observations here.

I think the late 90's outbacks are rather ugly compared to the restyling in 2000 though, which is why I purchased new despite originally wanting to go after a late model used outback in 2001.

Best Regards,

-- Todd H.

2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA

Holy Cow! the anger! the ANGER! I have had 3 old gen subes(non 5 main bearing). My latest 87 just got a rocker panel after 20 years and some rear quarters, in a place that kills everything.Coincidentally, there are others, as daily drivers, thumping by the house all the time. It deserves a WORLD FREAKIN RECORD written in TRUTH of durability- all aspects of a car. It *IS* the reputation new subes will never get... Avoid the 5 main bearings versions, this stuff goes away.Alot of things that make a car gentle are with newer subes. That is the big evolution I am missing. If any paid attention years ago... the mention of subarus transition to a destructible engine was very much intentional due to the market place and its potential domination of all small car market. So, because of inline four engine retards, we all suffer... to this day. I will not be getting a newer subaru with the lies snapping peoples hopes of reputation. The v8 diesel by dodge coming up with 20's mpg sounds real interesting... I have never liked Dodge... To claim I am stuck in the past would be a mistake, my mind is open. I am almost as desperate. I am a BYard mechanic who did not ask to "see it all." but did anyway... In other words, do not be afraid to get truthful facts and make changes. The new subes since the 5 main bearing are proven bad where I live too. The cost is even more to get less car... Definately a time to change autos.

"Porgy Tirebiter" wrote in message news:2eZEh.1293$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...

HOw'd I get to 105k without any head gasket issue? Should I go buy a lottery ticket?

I have none.

I have had none of these problems.

Since a window adjustment 3 years ago, I haven't had any of this.

I have some pain chips on the front of the hood.

This is a legit gripe.

I haven't had a problem with this.

This is a legit gripe. But it is full time AWD, and I don't believe you'll find significantly better mileage with a full time AWD vehicle.

Parts are expensive. This is a legit gripe.

Not true. Subarus hold their resale exceptionally well in comparison to other cars.

WTF are you talking about? The guy is asking about a legacy and outback, not a WRX.

But as flame bait goes, kudos!

-- Todd H.

2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA

I'm not a mechanic, but common sense tells me that both cars are quite senior and are going to require expensive work as things start breaking down. I would not buy either unless you like to work on cars.

Whether an older car or more mileage car is better would also depend on where the car was kept, if in a rust-prone area. In California cars will last for more years, while in North East the age is more significant.

Adam

I'd second that. The legacy I bought used with less than 100k turned out to be a complete nightmare maintenance wise sucking the money out of me like a black hole.

If that still does not deter you from buying a money pit I'd say get the newer car. If anything the rubber parts are in better shape most likely.

But as I said I'd strongly recommend against buying a used subaru that's off the warranty. If anything they are way overpriced due to high demand.

At those mileages, the reliability of a brand/model on average is less of an issue than the individual car's maintenance/care.

Personally, I'd try for an '03 Outback with the H6. My wife's has only had A/C hoses replaced under warranty.

Carl

LoL...you're not sayin' dear Porgie has an axe to grind, are ya? :-P

I'd still rather either Subaru, than something like a Dodge Intrepid in that ballpark...regardless of maintenance.

IMO, the EJ22 motor and a 5spd tranny will probably offer the best combination of performance and long term reliability, regardless of vintage. Mid '90s and onwards Legacy/Impreza will also have airbags and, frequently ABS (if you like that sorta thing . . .). Subaru DOHC motors and ATs seem to have less stellar reputations, as well as offering poorer fuel economy. That said, any recent Subaru will be needing a fairly major service at around the 100K mark; timing belt and associated hardware, water pump, possibly brakes, etc. Probably $500-$600 or more depending. A car with

125-150K will, presumably have already had this done. Always check before putting money on the table. FWIW, plenty of '90s vintage (and older) Soobies still goin' strong at 300K plus miles. Sign of TLC. If you are incapable of providing reasonable care (as some respondents to this thread would seem to be), nothing is gonna last far past the manufacturers warranty . . . As always, YMMV.

ByeBye! S.

Steve Jernigan KG0MB Laboratory Manager Microelectronics Research University of Colorado (719) 262-3101

He *is* an axe, and a dull one at that.

Thanks all for the advice. If anybody's keeping score, I bought a 2001 Outback 5-speed, with slipping clutch and a variety of small issues reflected in the price. I suppose I could have gotten more reliability for the same money in a honda civic or some such, but I don't *like* them half so well....

~Adam

I think you face a significant chance of head gasket failure with the entire first gen Legacy/Outback and the first couple years of the second gen car. You're looking at roughly a $2000 repair if the HG goes. You should also be aware that the timing belt *must* be replaced by 105,000 miles. With first gen cars that make it 7,8 9 years before reaching 105,000 miles, you typically also need to replace the belt tensioner. While the belt's off, it's smart money to also do some seals and water pump, maybe the oil pump. All in all, that's roughly $750.

Unless you can negotiate down the price to account for these repairs or get some limited warranty on the head gasket issue, I'd look at a different car. Honda CRV maybe.

Is there any way to tell if the timing belt has been replaced already?

Yep, just ask the seller and get his service records. If the seller says yes, but doesn't have service records, ask where the work was done and contact the repair shop for a record.

If all else fails, sometimes a mechanic can tell if the bolts on the timing belt cover were ever off b/c a wrench will leave marks. If it doesn't look like it's ever been off, it probably hasn't been.

If your's has an interference engine, believe me, you don't want to let that service interval come and go without replacing the timing belt. I had a timing belt prematurely break on an interference engine. Luckily, Mitsu picked up the $3,000+ bill (timing belt, bent valves, nicked pistons, etc., etc.)

I did get a warranty on the head gasket issue. We'll see how it goes.