Warm up cycle is computer controlled?
How? What does ECU do for warming up the car?
My definition of warmed up car is one I can drive off without any
hesitation or jerkiness, or difficulty with shifting gears.
Simply, warmed up car is drivable normally.
Been driving ~50 years, I never encountered any unusual problem with
cold weather. Today's computer controlled car needs less idle(warm up)
time compared to old carb. engine cars for obvious reason.
Everything. In particular, it controls the fuel flow - taking over the
job which used to be done by a manual choke and later by an automatic
choke. The ECU optimises fuel flow to minimise emissions, which are at
their worst when the engine is cold.
Fine. You are welcome to use any definition you like. It won't make
any difference to the ECU, which will decide when your engine is
warmed up to the point where it is working at normal efficiency.
Interesting. That appears to be the situation, yes.....probably
because the ECU does such a good job of maintaining driveability
during warm up. Modern, lightweight engines are, of course, designed
to run much hotter than the old cast iron lumps we used to use.
The ECU shutting down a car which has been only partially warmed up
and not allowing it to restart for half and hour or so may not be
common, but it is a well documented problem.
ECU's does not know whether you started the car remotely to warm up or
whatever, It's job is to make engine run for the condition. If it was
cold then it'll deliver more fuel like old choke did, etc. ECU has no
way of knowing this is warm up cycle, so I am doing this. Just it is
doing it's job as programmed for the situation. I neve saw anywhere in
the ECU firmware listing, routine for warm up. There is routine for idle
which has a sub-routine for variuous engine state; cold, hot, humid,
high altitude, low altitude, fuel Octane, etc.
Show me warm up routine in the listing.
David - I think what Tony is taking issue with is your statement: "The
warm-up cycle is computer controlled. If it's not completed to the
satisfaction of the computer it may well not allow the car to start again
for several minutes."
Perhaps this could be cleared up if you would focus on that statement and
elaborate on what you were getting at. It does sound like you were saying
there that the computer could lockout the engine from starting up if it is
cut off in the middle of a warm up cycle - not clear if you would say that
the firmware is intentionally designed to do that, or it's an inadvertent
result of a chain of events not anticipated or compensated for by the
designers (conflicting sensor readings until cooldown occurs or something
of that nature).
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address
I very much suspect the latter, Bill, but I have no detailed knowledge
here.....other than having read reports from reliable sources of a
number of occasions where precisely this set of circumstances has
occurred - a car is started up, driven a short distance, switched off
again and then won't start. Half an hour later it starts as normal.
Diagnostics can find nothing wrong.
Then something was not right with the car. ECU stores number of past
incidents in it's memory. You can pull it with diag. tool.
I never had an occasion cold or hot engine won't do a repeated start.
Let's close this thread.
That's true if you _*don't*_ live in Montana; Alaska; most of Canada; etc.
You'll drive nowhere until you've brought some lukewarm water into the heater
core for the defroster to function.
***There's a reason why Brits say "defogger" and Montanans say "defroster":
After scraping the outside of all the glass and mirrors, brooming off 6" to 2'
of snow, rocking the rig back and forth with your butt and legs to free up the
tire-melt ice to keep from snapping an axle; you'll be breathing enough moisture
to frost the inside of the windows .
That's not even counting the other possibles--- getting the hydraulic clutch to
move; moving the shifter; moving the seatback for a backseat passenger's entry
without cracking the old vinyl upholstery...
I call it de icer. And what Brits know? They drive on the wrong side of
the road. Wonder how many Km from one end to the other end of Britain?
I have to drive all day like crazy just to get my daughter's living in
next province. They don't even have a clue how cold it is in winter
here. Who cares about wear and tear, name of the game is start the car
and get moving without freezing to dead.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: Remote Starter kit for 02 Forester?
Nothing, unless you have bad arthritis/joint pain/back pain, a small child
that will be riding with you, or a cold or other illness.
How about an opinion from North Dakota? I have a block heater as well as a
remote starter. I personally do not use the preprogrammed start (every hour
or 2 or 3...etc..) unless it is VERY cold (-50 degrees Farrenheit or colder)
and I will be away from my car for a day or so. I do however use it to
warm/defrost my cars for about 3-4 minutes as I am getting ready to leave
the house. I have had 7 cars in the past 10 years that have this feature on
them and have had ZERO problems getting them to 100,000 miles+ with no major
problems (My neon that I listed in an earlier post never had a remote start
on it just for the record.) I wouldn't use a starter to run the vehicle
more than 10 minutes or so, but I will use it to start the motor and get
things going for a couple of minutes before I drive off. I also use the
"idle-down" feature on mine to act as a turbo timer.
As I stated before, I have installed them for over 10 years and have
installed well over 2000 units on various different vehicles and haven't
seen any bad effects on the motors of these vehicles yet, and trust me my
customers would let me hear about it if there was even a hint of a problem
(I've had people accuse me of affecting the ride characteristics of a
vehicle due to the installation, been accused of signal lights not working,
and decrease in gas mileage.....the gas mileage one is the only one I
consider real, the more you idle, the less mpg you get) Of course this is
all just my opinion based on my experiences, I would never "force" someone
to get one, but I sure wouldn't advise against it either.
Voice from Alberta. I have remote starter on all 4 vehicles in my family
which I installed myself. Hmmm, getting into cold car in cold winter?
Like from N. Dakota, this guy may never have lived in real cold winter!
We need all the help we can get. Battery blanket, block heater(two if it
is V8), remote starter.... We park the cars in the garage at home but
many places don't have parkade parking. Just open parking lot.
Who cares about little tear and wear on engine. Car is consumable.
When it gets used up, buy another new one. Let the ecconomy circulate.
P.S. In 1970, I started my car, Plymouth Fury Sports with 383 V8 in cold
winter night after X-mas party to come home. Car started alright,
timing chain got partially damaged making hell of clanking noise.
needed new chain the next day.
I do agree that in this part of the country, the coldest we usually
see is around zero degrees F. So i'm sure people that see real cold
weather knows how to deal with it.
I've always have done what's best for the car engine. I always try to
pamper my car to get the most out of it. This is why I don't like
remote starters. However, I can see in some circumstances it might be
the best choice.
Usually the coldest time comes at night. And at night I'm usually home
and have access to an electrial outlet. During the day we usually ONLY
see temp in the low teens. So when I'm at work and leave for the day
and it's this cold. I start the car and let it idle for a few minutes
to get the oil circulating, then drive using low RPM's as possible
until the car starts to warm up.
I can't image really cold temp like people see in Canada. My goal in
life is to live somewhere where the only ice I see is on the mug of my
I'm Sorry, but your wrong. The difference is..
1) I don't do this every hour (or 2.. or 4) during a cold winters
night. Each time you start the cold engine, wear is taking place. If
you start the engine and then let it idle for 5 minutes then shut if
off, that's unecessary wear. If it's that cold outside, the engine
will quickly cool off to outside temp within 30-45 minutes. So, not
much is accomplished. (I'm not even going to mention the drain on the
2) During the coldest part (usually at night) i'm at home and used a
block heater only. When I was at work (and didn't have access to an
electrical outlet) i used the "start and let it warm at idle for a
Hate to keep on about this, but their IS a difference. A remote
starter can ONLY start a car that's cold (whatever the outside temp
is) and warm it up. The starting of a cold engine means that for the
first few minutes cold oil is (trying) to circulate to the valves and
other parts of the engine. As oil is trying to pump around the engine,
metal to metal contact is taking place and that produces wear.
A block heater keeps the coolant warm (and in turn the oil) so when
you start the engine on a cold day, warm coolant (and therefore some
what warmer oil) is circulating in the engine. In my *tests* I would
see the block heater keeps the coolant around 55 degrees F during the
coldest part of winter. I would rather have 55 degree oil and coolant
in my engine at startup than outside temperature coolant/oil.
I'm sorry to say this, but the benefit of a remote start is ONLY for
the driver. The car does not benefit. By far the bigest enemy of a
engine is wear. And the biggest cause of wear is metal-to-metal
Where I live, if car is parked outside for the night in the winter,
often times it won't start because car is TOO cold inside/ouside.
If it was started and warmed up once in the night, it'll start in
the morning even if the car cooled off after shutting off.
How cold can it get here? It can get cold enough to see ice slush
inside battery. Is it cold enough for you or did you ever experience
cold weather like we have. Name of the game for us in winter is to make
sure car starts in the morning to go to work. Who cares about wear and
tear? Any thing we need and use always wear out needing replacement.
You sound like a guy trying to hang onto a car for the rest of your life
or treat like no. 1 asset you have. To me car is a neccessary evil which
I'd be glad if I could do without it.
Further up North from where I live, just running the engine all day is
not enough, they tie down pick up trucks on a jig like merry go round to
keep them in motion in low gear until they need to drive one.
Point is, the car was purchased to serve me. I didn't buy the car to serve
it. Here in Montreal the temperatures go down to around -40 with the
wind-chill factor, so I'm happy to have the remote starter to let my baby
run for 10 or 15 minutes before getting inside. Not everyone has access to
an outlet for either a battery blanket or block heater! When we've had
freezing rain, letting her run for 15-minutes melts all the ice, or at least
makes it soft enough for me to wipe off with my hand rather than damage the
trimming, metal or glass with the scraper....which does happen. I've set
mine to come on when it goes below -15. I don't buy the 'unnecessary wear'
argument'. Your point was well made, Tony.
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