accord wheel alignment readout

just got a wheel alignment done on my 99 accord (64K miles) at midas... looking at the readout i don't see a whole lot of adjustments made (for eg caster L/R, sai, curve toein etc).. some of the numbers seem worse than before (camber L/R front/rear). i guess only toe looks to be improved.. my questions to the folks in-the-know-

  1. what do you make of the read outs..
  2. does it indicate the best possible adjustments..
  3. finally are the alignment results objective or subjective.. if i took the same car to a different shop would i get similar results..
  4. now that the car is aligned, if i were to take it to another shop would they come back saying nothing needs to be done? too many questions, hope someone can shed some light on this.. thanks!

front measured database adjusted caster left 2.82 1.80/2.80/3.80 2.86 right 2.11 1.80/2.80/3.80 2.13 sai left 7.96 n/a 7.96 right 6.44 n/a 6.44 curve left 0.3 n/a 0.3 toein right 0.5 n/a 0.5 camber left -0.1 -1.00/0.00/1.00 -0.25 angle right 0.84 -1.00/0.00/1.00 0.92 partial left -0.09 n/a 0.01 toe right 0.01 n/a 0.00 total toe -0.08 -0.04/0.00/0.04 0.01 set-back -0.11 n/a -0.09

rear camber left -1.22 -1.50/0.50/1.50 -1.35 angle right 0.33 -1.50/0.50/1.50 0.39 partial left -0.06 n/a 0.01 toe right -0.23 n/a 0.00 totaltoe -0.29 -0.00/0.01/0.03 0.01 thrust angle 0.29 n/a 0.01 set-back -0.12 n/a -0.15

Reply to
blade
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Reply to
Shep

Reply to
blade

Reply to
Shep

"Shep" wrote in news:1159144961 snipped-for-privacy@sp6iad.superfeed.net:

The only adjustment on the '99 Accord is toe. If you want to adjust anything else, you need to install aftermarket suspension parts.

Also, as the bushings begin to sag from age, camber tends to increase.

Reply to
TeGGeR®

Or replace bent parts or bend something.

In terms of tire wear toe is everything. Caster and camber will not do much to tire wear at all unless wildly off. Caster balance will have an effect on pull. If wildly wrong on both sides caster will change handling characteristics. Camber hardly makes a rat's ass with radial tires even if wildly wrong -- although this varies with tire profile etc. Wear on one side of the tire only that is blamed on camber usually proves to be toe wear. Most cases of pull blamed on alignment prove to be tire issues. The alignment shop I sublet to routinely reports that the car pulled when they finished their alignment and road-tested it. They then move the tires around to prove that the pull moves with the tires and is not alignment-induced.

Don

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Don

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Reply to
Don

it's true about tires affecting pull - i've had that experience recently. bought a cheap set of tires a while back and am now regretting it for exactly those reasons.

otoh, it's also [unfortunately] true that many alignment shops are not very good at their job. one place i used to live near, i'd routinely have to go back 2 or 3 times to make sure rear alignment on a civic was done right. "it's because you've got a bent wheel" doesn't cut it on a rim that's straight to within 0.2mm. finally, when it becomes clear that the customer won't accept b.s., they'll have the old dog do the job and magically, it gets done right...

Reply to
jim beam

if the camber on the left wheel is -ve and on the right wheel is +ve (and close to the top of the range) then the left wheel is leaning on its outer edge as is the right wheel.. how can this not be a cause of the tire wearing off unevenly? in my case both the front and rear left and right tires has this.. as regards caster, it went 2.82->2.86 on the left and

2=2E11->2.13 > >
Reply to
blade

really? what other cars have adjustable caster and camber from factory? and why would they need it?

Reply to
jim beam

Is this a loaded question? ;) Some older Honda's did have a ft caster adjustment. Subaru's have ft camber (along with many other cars) Mazda Miata's and some Chryslers (as well as others) have rear camber with the toe. The Chryslers cam be a challenge, for you have to move a toe bolt and camber bolt and caress both numbers into specs. I enjoyed the challenge.

Reply to
Stephen H

ok, but that's not in the same way that toe is adjustable. and maybe i should have said "what other MODERN cars... ". things like camber are designed to be set at the factory and not monkeyed with again. the logic is that any post-factory misalignment is an impact damage issue and if it's not bent suspension componentry, it's the frame which needs to be re-set to bring it back into spec. from an engineering perspective, and assuming access to modern frame alignment gear, that's a much more "correct" way of doing it, and one that manufacturers capable of building decent and consistently well-aligned frames are entitled to take advantage of.

Reply to
jim beam

Agreed! A alignment is a fine tune of the final components; seen many new cars come with alignment out from the factory. (Mazda's come to mind) Some cars you can get a few degrees out of a non adjustable point, And I'll try it if necessary. Most people barely want an alignment looked at; they sure don't want to take it to a frame/body shop. We had an Eagle come into the Firestone I worked at from a local dealership; at trade-in. This car had barely 60k on it but it was drove hard and put away wet. So much wrong with it. I told them (after getting the numbers on a alignment check) it needed to go to a body shop. They insisted we "just get it to drive straight." We put adjustable cams on both ft tires; moved one side in, the other out; still couldn't get it to drive correctly. They eventually gave it to the "old timer" who knew (somewhat) what to move to get it to drive decent. We should have never touched it and the dealer is now out of business.

Steve

Reply to
Stephen H

Reply to
blade

What kind of car do you have, and do you have the alignment printout?

Reply to
Stephen H

Reply to
blade

Reply to
blade

Sorry, I didn't note you are the original poster!

Anyway, What I see is a cross camber problem in both front and rear, as if the car took a slide sideways. Optimum camber for front is 0 degrees, with a + or - of one degree, the rear a -.5 with a plus or minus of 1 degree also. LF is: OK RF is: .84, within limits but extreme LR is: 1.22, within limits but extreme RR is: OK

Now, unless something is worn, there is no real way they moved it, unless it was sloppy work. Sometimes the numbers do bounce around a bit, but I wouldn't hold the shop responsible, although I am surprised they didn't bring it to your attention that there is a adjustment problem.

Now the best fix is to see what is bent or worn; A cheaper route is to put an adjustable camber kit on the RF and LR. You may think about putting it on all 4 corners Here are two examples of the parts needed; I'd check with a Napa

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(a front camber ball joint Adj)
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(a rear camber control arm Adj) I hope this helps Stephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance ASE Undercar Specialist

Reply to
Stephen H

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