Amsoil Vs Mobil 1/Valvoline etc? need unbiased opinions/tests

Hi, I just recently bought a 1999 Sunfire with 116,000 clicks on it, I got an oil change with Mobil 1 pure synthetic and for whatever reason the temperature of the engine has died down quite a bit and is running much more smoothly; so I was just wondering, is there a real difference between Mobil 1 and Amsoil? I've read studies but they all seem to be linked to Amsoil. Since I my car is automatic and I only speed maybe

10-20 kms out of the speed limit and use it mainly for work and driving my sister to work and back, I'm wondering if it's worth paying the extra and getting Amsoil; even if the tests are unbiased is the difference in wear and tear really that big of a concern?
Reply to
caffieneaddict
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On 22 Oct 2006 12:15:30 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I'm not sure you'll find anything unbiased. Amsoil depends on a pyramid marketing scheme to stay in business. So you pay more to support all the people in the pyramid. I have never seen a single document that shows any real world difference between amsoil and Mobile One. You will find things on the Amsoil site claiming test results that show it to be better then Mobil one. Keep in mind that those kinds of tests can also show an improvement by putting chlorine compounds in the oil being tested. It will lower friction but will corrode your bearings - so its a meaningless test. Also keep in mind that with only a couple of exceptions, none of the amsoil oils has been tested and certified by API to actually meet the API service class for the oil. Mobile one has been. Mobile one has also been formulated so that it won't foul your pollution control equipment in keeping with the required 120,000 mile (Give or take) certified emissions requirement for new cars. Since Amsoil isn't certified by anyone there is no way to know if the additive package in it will or won't shorten the life of your pollution control systems. For example, there are phosphorus additives that will provide great lubrication properties and were used for years in oils to make them hold up (anti-wear additives) under use. Problem is that they contaminate your catalytic converter. So API certified oils have to pass the tests for wear AND NOT contaminate your converter. Since Amsoil isn't certified who knows whether it will cause a problem at

80,000 miles or not. The amsoil excuse for not getting the certification is that it costs money yet they have one of the highest priced oils on the market. I'll stick with Mobile One, thank you very much.
Reply to
Ashton Crusher

In my mind it is simple. Amsoil will void your engine warranty and Mobile won't. They can hype the crap (Amsoil) all they want, it will never go in my engine.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail >
Reply to
Mike Romain

These folks seem independent and thorough.

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After reading their results, I continue to use Mobil 1.

-Jason

Reply to
jazon48

Yes. Amsoil is a fraud sold by pyramid scheme sellers like Charlie Nudo, the "duty-honor-country" troll who has infected rec.auto.makers.chrsysler and other NGs. Mobil 1, the first widely marketed synthetic, is not. Note that NONE of Amsoil's products have been tested and certified by API for any class of service. If you run Amsoil and lose an engine, guess what...the repair's on you.

Caveat emptor.

Reply to
DeserTBoB

But dewd! Amsoil's more slickery than Mobil1!! Just like tubes are more accurate than solid state!

(j/k)

-phaeton

Reply to
phaeton

The Amsoil XL7500 oils are API certified and won't void your warranty (it is unlikely the others will either). On the other hand, the Amsoil XL7500 oils are faux synthetic oils (highly refined group III oils like Castrol Syntec).

It is my personal opinion that Amsoil products are OK. The marketing scheme and bogus claims for the product are big problems And keep me from using them (plus they are over priced). The Amsoil corporate web site is very careful in its claims. Some of the people who remarket the products are not careful and they tend to inflate the advantages.

For most people, synthetic oil is not worth the money (even Mobil 1). With a high mileage engine, I suspect you would be better off using a good quality conventional oil and changing it more frequently. Older engines (particularly ones with unknown maintenance histories) are likely to have higher rates of blowby. This means, that even though you don't think the engine is burning oil, it may be, and the oil level is being maintained by the addition of blowby products. Blowby contaminated oil is not as good as clean fresh oil.

Ed White

Reply to
C. E. White

Not ture, the Amsoil XL7500 Oils are API certified (See

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you may have to restart the search to get the list of oils, go to
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and enter Amsoil in the License box). Ed

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

That's too funny!

The 'only' oil they can get certified is a 'fake' synthetic they can charge big bucks for using the 'synthetic' name on. LOL! Snake oil salesmen at their best.

Mike

"C. E. White" wrote:

Reply to
Mike Romain

Most of the Amsoil products except the XL7500 oils (the extended drain products in particular) use an additive package that won't meet the current API certification requirements. They have too much phosphorus in them. The automakers asked for tight limits on phosphorous because they believe it will damage catalytic converters if too much is present. Amsoil disputes this. Phosphorous is a good anti-wear additive and is a helpful additive if you want to go for extended drain intervals. So if you believe the automakers, you probably should stay away from the Amsoil products that are not API certified. If you believe Amsoil (the corporate guys, not some of the zealots who sell it), the risk to your catalytic converter is insignificant and the extra phosphorous is good for your engine. Amsoil doesn't warrant catalytic converters, the vehicle manufacturers do. Vehicle manufacturer don't gain anything if you go to extended oil drain intervals, so there is no reason for them to support Amsoil's position. You have to make your own decision and take your chances.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

I have no feeling, personally, about the technical merits (or lack of them) of Amsoil products.

Their marketing system might lead us to believe they are POS charlatan crappeaux opportunists. But I dont know this.

I dont use Amsoil, have no place for Amsoil, aint gonna use Amsoil. Ditto Mobil 1, at this stage at least.

Reply to
hls

I would venture to say that not ONE of us knows anything substantial about any of the oils, Mobil 1 and Amsoil included.

Many here quote statistics but dont really know what the hell is going on.

Based on statistics, Alf Landon was president, years ago.

Talk about what you know, not about what bullshit has been fed to you with a teaspoon.

Reply to
hls

You've evidently been following the history of Noodles and myself! Good one!

Reply to
DeserTBoB

OK, chew on this: I remember a guy with a brand new Cadillac 346 (later permuation of the '63-whenever late 390/429/472/500/426/346, a bullet proof engine as far as GM engines go) that went to Amsoil after break-in, and one day while accelerating normally, scattered the engine all over the roadway. Cadillac refused warranty replacement, and litigation ensued. As it turned out in trial, Cadillac showed analysis and examples of the main and rod bearing shells showing extreme corrosion and pitting therefrom. Further evidence showed that the Amsoil "synthetic" (another lie) used by the owner was NOT API or GM certified. Add the pyramid scheme distribution and extreme hype of their ad campaign, and you won't catch me putting Amsoil "anything" in even a Briggs & Stratton....or Tecumseh, for that matter! To me, and remembering the era in which Amsoil got to be a big biz, it's just another snake oil pyramid scheme, which were very popular in the '70s.

One similarly distributed product from years earlier that really did work, and work well: The Frantz oil cleaner...if it was properly installed, and most weren't.

Any more questions?

Reply to
DeserTBoB

You ever hear the one about the guy who wakes up in a tubfull of ice, with his kidney removed?

¨Do you know the guys name who scattered the Cadillac? Do you suppose that is the only Cadillac that scattered? Can we prove it really happened? Or that Amsoil was the fault?

There are lots of scams out there. Some are easy to document. Some are not.

Reply to
hls

I give this story a 75% rating on the bogusity scale. Amsoil didn't start selling synthetic oil until 1972 (the year the company was founded). Seem unlikely it was involved in the failure of a 346 Cadillac V-8 that wasn't in production at that time. Maybe the OP meant that it was used in a 500 cid Cadillac V-8 (introduced on 1970) or the 425 cid engine introduced in 1977, or the 368 cid engine introduced in 1980.

Before I believe this story, I'd need more consistent facts.

BTW, I don't recommend Amsoil. The oil may be fine, but it is overpriced, and the marketing scheme sucks.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

I've seen amsoil tests, and I would still use Mobil 1 instead

1] Readily available

2] Relatively lower-priced in comparison

3] Nationally-known brand

Seems no-brainer.

Reply to
Knifeblade_03

I don't have any remarkable knowledge about either of those oils, but for perspective, you've got a not terribly high-strung engine somewhere in its comfortable midlife and you use it in normal driving. If it's running more smoothly and quietly on synthetic than it used to on dinosaur oil, going to great lengths to chase down the last couple percent of (potential/alleged) mprovement may not be worth it unless you enjoy that as a techno-hobby.

Cheers, Joe "Pareto's Law is fractal" Chew

Reply to
Ad absurdum per aspera

Anecdotal. I owned a '71 Grand Prix that threw a connecting rod journal bearing at 13,000 miles at 22 MPH with five quarts of Pontiac-dealer- installed oil in it. Personally, I'd believe Cadillac put corroded parts in the engine at the factory.

And no, I'm not defending Amsoil, even though my one experience with it many years ago was good.

Reply to
clifto

I have a Gulf Coast that is very similar to the frantz.

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Had an unusual problem with the paper getting caught. I emailed Gulf Coast with this link and they never bothered to respond.

Below is a copy of the email I sent. I was going to look for input here but since you mentioned Frantz, I though what the heck.

I would appreciate opinions. If I keep the paper changed the oil stays fairly clear. Next time I would use Mobile 1 oil with the filter.

Steve

Hello,

I am sorry to cc everyone but I honestly thought you all would be interested. I have one of your filters in my 96 Geo Tracker. I've had it approx 2 years and put over 120,000 on my oil with no problems-until now.

I went to change the filter today and I stood the filter up straight to drain the oil, like I always do. Then about an hour later I came back and popped the top. The filter was still full of oil, which has never happened.

I pulled the paper out and discarded it (Scott's 1,000 sheet single ply BTW). Then in the oil left in the bottom it looked like there was something (paper) sticking up. I reached in and it felt like it was stuck in the hole. I tried to pull it out but it of course just tore. It was just a piece of TP.

I cleaned out the inside of the filter so I could see and it turns out the small hole was plugged with paper. When I ran my finger over it it turned white.

I took photos and a video of the paper in the hole. I got it out by pulling the return connector from the bottom of the can. No wonder I couldn't pull it out. It was huge.

Anyway I thought you'd like to see the photos and the video. They are at:

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I also have kept the piece I pulled out in case you want/need it. It feels like it has stiff fishing line in it. It's very strange feeling. I have never used anything but Scott's TP in this unit.

Don't take this email wrong I'm not looking to start any trouble for you I just thought you'd be curious. I have heard the rumours of TP getting back into the engine but I always 'knew' that was crazy. Now maybe under the right circumstances it may be possible for it to happen although I doubt it would be enough to do any harm at all. The oil in the pan should still pass through the spin on filter.

Anyway you all have a great day. Steve Schmidt

PS. Couple things to think about in the future.

1.) The bottom screws in the base strip way too easily. Maybe metal inserts would be good.

2.) Even after tightening the top band the lid seal still leaks after so long a time. It's too bad it doesn't use a standard size o-ring or gasket. Although maybe it does, I haven't searched everywhere yet. It's kind of a pain in the butt to pull the gasket and try and drive around finding the gasket.

1996 Geo Tracker 219,000 miles. Put filter on at 92,400 miles. Never changed oil, just filter. Valvoline 10W-40
Reply to
SteveSch

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