"probably"?
and any "whip" would be for kinking.
if it does, the hose will burst from inside to outside, not outside to inside. the latter is the only way you could possibly get a "flap". and that can't happen from clamping since the pressure from the two opposing walls prevents both contacting parts from doing so.
>
Whatever you say, dude.
aarcuda69062 wrote in news:nonelson- snipped-for-privacy@reserved-multicast-range-NOT-delegated.example.com:
Wasn't sure, but I thought it was a fair question considering the coincidentally-sudden onset of the problem.
You are neglecting slow degrading of the interior surface of the hose or other parts of the system leading to debris or fractures that could block or restrict flow.
what "flow"? and fractures allow material outwards, not inwards - just like a burst tire allows air outwards, not inwards. debris? from what? this is not an open system. and there's no "could" - that's just a "ghost in the machine" argument.
The (effectively) incompressible fluid that moves along the brake lines and hoses into the caliper forcing the pads against the rotor and then (some of it returns) back when the pedal is released. Really, Why do I have to explain this?
My god. you act like someone who was good at school and that's it. Like someone who has read about stuff but has no knack or actual experience. The inconsistency of your own posts... first you blather on about contamination and the reaction of rubber to it and now you're acting like it's impossible for foreign materials to get into the system.... not to mention what I actually wrote which was materials of the system breaking down and in that process debris being produced. Here's a clue, parts decay. They decay from the outside and the inside.
How do you think this:
Then there is rust and other debris that can come from deterioration of the internal surfaces of the system.
because you don't seem to understand that migration of the order of millimeters is not, by any reasonable definition, "flow". and it's certainly not "flow" as far as being able to fold a flap against itself inside the bore of a tube being held shut by external pressure. or whatever the fantasy guesswork mechanism is you're speculating about.
talk of blather - and talk of total materials ignorance. there is nothing "entering" the system. any discoloration is either assembly lubricant, moisture absorption, or rubber "powder" from wear. NONE of which can "tear" the innards of a thick walled rubber tube and create a "flap".
the fibers fatigue and break. see above comment on materials ignorance.
and did you see any "flaps" in here?
no dude, material always moves with the pressure differential. fundamental fact.
fundamental misunderstanding and uninformed speculation.
bullshit.
fundamental misconception and uninformed guesswork. see above.
doubtless deposited by the extensive "flow" you're guessing happens...
Your reasoning and explanations are clearly light years ahead of those arguing that either cannot or simply will not see. Thank you for the patient education and your continuing participation.
You mean milliliters and it is a flow. I am not speculating about anything of a flap holding itself anywhere. I stated you neglected the inside surfaces deteriorating. You believe they remain pristine. There is no good basis for this assumption.
Stop projecting.
According to your seal swelling theory there must be. But I don't expect people like you to be logical and think, you just parrot out what you read without any thinking. It leads to good grades in school, but in the practical world results in the sort of opposing arguments you are making in this thread. On one hand you argue that the master cylinder seals swell from contamination and then shrink when the contamination is removed, but here you argue the system is sealed and free of contamination of any sort, even particles from the inside surfaces of the system components. It's pretty clear you lack the ability to think and simply parrot.
Who said anything about discoloration? Materials break down. Materials fracture from the stresses of operation. A brake hose sees cycles of pressure, bending, and when the caliper is off the car can see twisting or stretching. (torsion and tension) You neglect that on the inside surface. You act as if it is never stressed, does not age, and would some how magically stay perfectly new for forever.
So internal damage occurs. That's the point. The fibers are completely sealed between the inner and outer layers, yet they fail. Guess what can happen to your inner wall? It's not made of some magical material. Stop projecting your ignorance on me.
I'm not arguing flaps. I'm pointing out your ignorance and inconsistency.
I argued that, "dude". I explained it to you. The pressure doesn't only act out towards the walls of the system it is also still applied in the direction of the tube.
Projection due to lack of any ability to formulate a reply.
Once again, declaration from bookboy. Go back to school where parroting what you read in a book counts for something.
Once again, projection due to a lack of ability to think. Where can I buy this magical material you believe is on the inside of braking systems that never breaks down, never fatigues, has no issue with temperature cycles, age, etc and so on? Please. Tell me where this stuff is... and since it is passenger cars it's probably cheap too!
no, i mean millimeters, and it is not "flow" - it doesn't go anywhere. oil in your oil pump flows - in a loop circuit. gasoline flows from your tank into the injection system and out the engine. brake fluid is a sealed system - other than a little elastic movement, it doesn't go anywhere.
there can be some decomposition, but that is irrelevant to this whole "flap" nonsense.
there's never been and never will be evidence for a flap since one cannot be created inside a tube like this. apart from there being no mechanism for creating one [a simple pressure fissure can't do it], it would require folding against itself, despite the physical barrier inside the bore of the tube, and would have to be perfectly arranged to create a one-way valve. that is a "ghost in the machine" argument from someone trying to make stuff up to explain something they don't understand or haven't bothered to properly analyze.
so far, not a single person has brought any understanding of these materials to this thread. [nor have they brought any understanding of fracture mechanics or even hydraulic principles for that matter.] so it is /not/ "projecting" to state that there's "total materials ignorance"
- because that's simple observation of the truth.
there is no debris or other solids entering sufficient to block a tube, much less create one of these mysterious "flaps". fluid contamination on the other hand is pervasive and can't be avoided.
translation: i'm telling you stuff you don't understand.
i mentioned discoloration because that's the only "evidence" a casual observer has of anything changing in the system.
indeed they do. and if you've learned anything about stress and fracture, you'll know that fracture is ALWAYS perpendicular to principle stress. there is NO WAY the stresses in this system can resolve to orientate a fracture to run substantially parallel to the tube wall for sufficient length to form a "flap", and there's no "flow" to fold that flap against itself inside a small bore tube.
that's not what i'm saying. i'm saying that, apart from the complete absence of any evidence, there's no /mechanism/ for this "ghost in the machine". and if you had sufficient grasp of the mechanical principles, you'd understand that too.
besides, it's ridiculous to even speculate about the ghost when the real explanation is right there in front of you - and built right into the master cylinder.
pressure ALWAYS flows from high to low. a rupture always goes outwards, not inwards. end of story.
/neither/ of which can apply a stress that can cause the kind of fracture the "ghost" would need to have happen.
"inability formulate a reply that you can understand" you mean. and that's really not my problem, so don't make out like it is.
would now be a bad time to point out that the whole automotive, aerospace and defense industries are dependent on "bookboys"?
you can buy adequately magical material at any auto parts store. but it won't contain ghosts that "explain" thing you don't understand - unfortunately.
ok, here is an experiment where you don't have to take my word for it - you can do it at home. take a brake caliper, block it with some wood, then connect some hydraulic hose to it. at the other end of your hydraulic hose, connect your garden hose and turn on the faucet. then run round to the side of the house and look at the water meter. see how fast it's spinning? well, now you have a crude measure of flow. want better accuracy? attach a more accurate
If the fluid doesn't go anywhere, what is behind the caliper pistons when the pads wear? If it doesn't go anywhere, why is there a reservoir on the master cylinder? Answer these questions. Stop avoiding it.
At least you finally admit the inside surface can be in something other than as-new condition.
Perhaps it isn't a flap, perhaps it is not, perhaps it is very rare, perhaps it's some other blockage interpeted as a flap. however once a surface starts breaking down inside a tube a variety of things could happen and it's hardly a ghost. I've seen things like shavings of orings block valves from operating properly, and whole host of other issues in fluid systems that fall under your 'ghost in the machine' dismissal. The idea that these sort of things can't happen in automotive braking systems is absurd. Is every effort made so they don't? Sure. But it is still not a perfect world.
You're not at that level. Sorry. I'm not going to even bother trying to get that through to someone who thinks fluid doesn't move in an automotive braking system when anyone who has replaced pads or shoes knows it does.
I'm done. I've got better things to do. like sleep.
Wouldnt it be prudent to take it back to the shop that did the work? HTH, Ben
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