Clutch bolts and locktite

Which is best for dropping the transmission?
Do you remove the crossmember, the bracket, or just the transmission mount?
* Crossmember
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* Bracket
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* Mount
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Also, do you locktite the bolts when you re-install? (What color?)
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Reply to
Arlen Holder
I found out that almost nobody uses locktite on transmission bolts. Flywheel yes. Transmission no.
I still might locktite it though, just because it's hard to get to the upper 17mm transmission bolts on the bell housing (I had to use a series of half-inch extensions 30" long with a swivel as the 3/8" extensions just twisted more than a quarter turn and were useless).
The blue is the locktite I'll buy (I generally never use the stuff but I've never done a transmission before - but I've done everything else that people do as I don't think I've been to a mechanic in two decades and my cars are all that old).
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I was hoping for more advice here than "if you don't know, then you should" though. Sigh.
Anyway, as for the colors, Blue is just help it from coming loose where proper torquing does the work. Red is for permanent install, hard to come off Green is for use on nuts and bolts that are already installed
This guide to locktite seems useful.
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Reply to
Arlen Holder
If you're going to use any, blue is the way to go or the next time you remove the transmission you'll be in there with a torch heating up the bolts to soften the red.
I have never used LocTite on transmission, bellhousing, or pressure plate fasteners.
Reply to
rbowman
Thanks for the locktite advice, where I never use it and I've done a decent amount of work (cooling systems, alternators, belts, tensioners, etc.) where I never before ran into bolts that needed 30 inches of extension to get to, so I'll locktite blue them sparingly.
I always buy the tools I need, where right now, I can't think of the tool that I need, but whatever it is, I need it.
How on earth do you get the transmission to back away from the engine? I can't budge the thing! It's in neutral. I'm positive all the bolts are off. I'm only somewhat positive that it's level because you can't really easily tell, but it's close enough as I can wiggle it back and forth. If it's hanging up on something, I don't see what. I just can't get any rearward force on that transmission. What tool does that?
Here are some pictures showing that it seems to be hanging up on the upper dowel pin, where the lower dowel pin is already out.
This is the driver side lower dowel pin, which is already out: This is the same view showing that the tranmission "appears" level: This is the passenger side where the dowel pin can be seen up high: I'm not sure where to place the jack but it's at the transmission waist:
The tool I need is a tool to back the transmission away from the engine. What tool is that?
Reply to
Arlen Holder
Luckily I haven't had to go there yet. I didn't replace the clutch throwout bearing a few years ago but that's no big deal.
Grant me the knowledge to put LocTite on the things shouldn't come apart, Never-Seez on the things that should, and the wisdom to know the difference.
Reply to
rbowman
OH oh.... supporting the engine? I could. I have plenty of floor jacks.
It's RWD though. The vehicle is on four jack stands (two on the rear axle and two on front frame points just inside the wheels).
I appreciate your question, and my answer is definitely "no", I am not supporting the engine.
It didn't occur to me to support the engine so I have to ask why would that help?
(I'm not at all against the idea - I just don't understand how it can help?)
How would I support the engine so that it would help?
Reply to
Arlen Holder
Oh my.
You _must_ support the engine. Either via a block of wood under the oil pan, a trans lift under the pan, or a bar with chain across the shock towers or hood opening. If you dont, the engine will tilt. Bad things can happen like something goes through the radiator or the exhaust manifold breaks, wires get ripped off, etc. The cross member - remove it. It will make life a lot easier. You did not say what specific engine, vehicle, trans, etc, but without removing it it is doubtful that that there will be enough room to back off the trans and then tilt forward to drop it with out breaking off the tail shaft. So why are you removing the trans? To R&R the clutch? If so, then replace the throwout bearing while you are at it. You will need a clutch plate centering tool. Thread lock- I tend to use blue thread lock on small bolts and nuts that get torqued to inch pounds but not on large bolts that get torqued to 100+ foot pounds. A suggestion: replace any lock washers.
Reply to
Paul in Houston TX
You took out the cross member under the transmission, right? Do the engine mounts entirely support the engine, or do the transmission mounts play a part? In other words, is the rear of the engine trying to rotate downward and binding the transmission?
I don't know your vehicle, but usually a jack under the crankcase does the trick. You're not trying to jack the engine up, just replace the support provided by the transmission you're trying to remove.
Reply to
rbowman
Good advice. I've replaced two throwout bearings on my F150. I did the clutch and pressure plate too the second time around even though both were serviceable. The latest throwout bearing is composite, not cast iron, and hopefully will last. For the record, it wasn't the bearing itself but the body binding on the transmission.
Reply to
rbowman
Wade Garrett posted for all of us...
I believe this guy is the valve stem thread, harbor freight bead breaker, tire spec, brake lining spec Ultrec nym shifter. If he would just post under one name then I and more people would help him. Since I posted this the insults and diversions will now start.
Reply to
Tekkie®
Been there more than once on more than one bike . NOBODY puts a wrench on my bike but me ... the 1990 Ultra recently got a total tranny rebuild and new pistons/rings/valve tappets/top end gaskets plus a new primary chain and comp sprocket set .
Reply to
Terry Coombs
To answer your question, I am now supporting the engine but I don't think it needed to be supported since nobody else does that that I could figure out. With the jack on the engine and the transmission out, I can move the engine about 1/2 inch or even less, so that might be helpful when lining it up for the reassembly though.
The cross member and the sway bar were removed, and I'm glad it did that because you need as much room as possible the first time you do it.
The Aisin clutch kit from Rockauto came with five pieces: a. Clutch plate b. Diaphragm c. Pilot bearing d. Throwout bearing e. Alignment tool
I am replacing the clutch where it was worn to the rivets.
I'm kind of stuck now on whether to remove the flywheel and get a new one or have it machined (and replace the oil seal behind it) or just keep it where it is (the bolts are on really tightly and I can't tell if it needs to be machined or not).
Reply to
Arlen Holder
Yup. And I'm glad I did as you need all the room you can get the first time you do this job, especially since the transmission jack is kind of big.
The engine is fully supported with the transmission out. Even so, I now have a jack under it, just in case I want to move it upward to align things on the replacement.
The problem was stupid. Really stupid. I am embarrassed. I removed the exhaust bracket bolts (two of them) but I didnt' realize that the bracket, even when not connected to the bell housing, was in the way of the bell housing moving backward. I'm an idiot. It was all my fault. I couldn't find a DIY that explained this as everyone has different exhaust depending on federal versus cali and the engine most people have is different.
I have a jack under the engine now, but it's not needed for the engine. It may be needed for adjusting angles for reassembly as the old diaphragm (before I took it off the engine) seems off kilter when looking head (for some reason).
While I can see the shift fork and throwout bearing in the bell housing
I haven't been able to see the pilot bearing or the rear oil seal.
Where is the pilot bearing? Is it under the throwout bearing? Is the oil seal behind the flywheel?
I'm not sure if I can get that flywheel off as those bolts are tight and my half-inch sockets are all only six point where you have to have 12 point:
How important do you think the flywheel machining or replacement is?
Reply to
Arlen Holder
The pilot bearing is just a bushing in the end of the crank or flywheel. The tip (about 1" or less) of the transmission's input shaft rests in this bushing to support it from flexing. Visible after you remove transmission and clutch plate and pressure plate. You'll need to use a suitable puller attached to a slide hammer to get it out. If the one already there looks ok, you can skip that and lightly grease it before you install the new clutch. If it is badly worn out, the front bearings in your tranny may be gone too.
Rear oil seal is a little more trouble. Need to remove the oil pan and maybe even the rear crank main bearing. Again, if its not leaking, leave it for the next overhaul.
Always replace the pressure plate and disc and the throwout bearing. Often, if the friction plate hasn't worn down to where the rivets have badly eaten up the flywheel, you don't need a new or regrind on the flywheel. If the scoring or grooves are small, the new clutch plate will wear in and work fine, although it will have slightly less lifetime since the grooving takes up a tiny bit of it's thickness during break in.
A clutch is exactly the same type mechanism as a brake disk and rotor, or brake shoes and drums. Use your experience there to guide you.
Judging when something must be replaced or reground is largely a matter of experience, so you'll just have to go from there and learn from any mistakes. There are no magic solutions.
Good luck.
Reply to
Hank Rogers
Yeah, he was offended by what I said and took a shot at me in another newsgroup over it. I was really just trying to help the guy out.
Asking those rookie questions before starting the major repair he was contemplating, I had visions of him mangling his hand, crushing his fingers, or a heavy overhead assembly slipping as he tried to remove it and dropping down onto him cracking his skull or crushing his chest.
When he sees this post- he'll probably go apoplectic!
Reply to
Wade Garrett
  Pilot bushings are most easily removed by filling them with grease , then using a round bar that fits snugly to apply hydraulic pressure - put one end of that round bar in the bushing and smack the other end with a hammer . A big one works better ... the bushing will pop right out .
Reply to
Terry Coombs
Nice clutch kit. From the photo it looks like it got pretty hot. I would have it machined or replaced. Rent an electric impact wrench and socket if you need to.
Reply to
Paul in Houston TX

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