Clutch bolts and locktite

Arlen Holder posted for all of us...

You want to buy 6 point impact sockets...

IF you hold the flywheel you MAY be able to get it of with a cheater.

Electric impacts have improved. Your present air impact may be weak because your setup cannot deliver enough air at sufficient pressure.

Thanks for that helpful advice Terry.

Since I've never done this, I need advice on even the simplest things if I've never encountered them before.

For bearings, I have plenty of harmonic balancer pullers and gear pullers but all of them latch to the OUTSIDE of a gear, hence they won't work on this bearing because there's nothing to hold on to on the outside.

I didn't try the packed grease trick yet, but since I have to pick up the new flywheel and rear engine seal anyway, I may as well pick up a bearing puller at Home Depot or the auto parts store to get this pilot bearing out.

The main question I have is for Clare, which is how does that rear main seal come out, and would he use the paper gasket that supposedly comes with it or Toyota FIPG instead (or both)?

The problem with that is that the flywheel bolts are 12 point.

The flywheel is off. I used a lock stop and a normal 1/2 inch breaker bar.

I first tried the hand impact tool, and it failed.

Then I tried the air-impact gun, and it failed even worse.

The air pressure is 120psi and the hose is 50 feet of 1/2 inch line, and the setting was set to 4 (smallest hole and to 1 biggest hole - as I'm not sure which is high pressure and which is low pressure) and it didn't do a thing (it never does, which is why I never use it).

It's a Universal Tool UT 2210:

Later, not today, I'll post a thread asking for a specific gun that I can buy on the net that actually works that isn't too expensive (because I almost never use a gun so it has to pay for itself with very few uses).

What worked is the old school method, which only took a little more effort:

What I need to ask Clare is how to get to that rear engine seal. Do I take out all those bolts around the pilot bearing area?

The rivets were worn only on the side facing the transmission, not the side facing the flywheel.

Resurfacing the flywheel doesn't seem worth it since it's $60 to resurface today and you never know how deeply the guy has to go (it was resurfaced once before about 10 years ago) and you don't know if he does a good job or not (but he probably does a great job as he's recommended by others).

So I'm buying a new flywheel, and, in fact, the old one is already off.

I was hoping Clare could recommend a flywheel given the information I provided (Toyota is as high as $700 while the parts stores are all below $100).

That's not as bad as suddenly realizing the transmission is hanging from the speedometer cable... I doubt they exist anymore so make that some sort of sensor wiring.

There is a speedometer gear which has to be pulled out of the transmission:

If I had known it was so easy to disable an odometer, the vehicle would have only 20K miles on it instead of 180K! (jk)

I took great pains to ensure the electrical harness was clear at all times.

I even removed the upstream lamba probe so as to to prevent damage:

That upstream oxygen sensor crossed the transmission but I couldn't unclip it so I just unbolted it. I will replace it as it's the original O2 sensor.

I probably should have bought a downstream o2 sensor also to replace but I didn't think of it when I was ordering the clutch parts.

Thanks for that advice Clare as I don't generally deal with threadlockers.

I saw your post only after I returned from the parts trip, where I had already picked up Loctite Red 271 and Permatex Red, and Loctite Blue 242 and Permatex Blue based on what the two different parts stores told me to get when I asked what they put on flywheels and bellhousing bolts.

Somewhere I read we have to FIPG the rear main oil seal, but now I think they mean to put FIPG in place of that paper gasket under the cover that holds the rear main oil seal.

I had already picked up this high temperature Permatex "gasket maker", where the purpose one is called Permatex Ultra Synthetic Gasket Maker" which "resists up to 500d F intermittent" and the Red RTF High Temp Gasket Maker says "resists up to 650d F intermittent".

I didn't know to pick up the primer. I'll have to go back tomorrow to get that primer (do you think carb cleaner or acetone will work?)

I don't mind doing things the right way - but I just have to know what the right way is, where I didn't know about the primer until this moment.

Aha! Thanks for explaining how to remove the old seal, as I didn't know if I should unbolt that plate or not to get it out. If it's that easy, I really need to do it even though the original isn't leaking.

This is a picture where the rear oil seal comes with the paper gasket:

It looks like they also call it a timing-cover seal (which is strange):

Even though it's in the back of the engine:

It does have a "retainer" which I guess is the aluminum housing around it:

The Toyota dealer parts people screwed up again, in that they "said" they had the rear main oil seal in stock, but they were talking about the wrong seal. Apparently they have something called an "engine seal" and they call this one the "transmission seal" (where I had explained clearly over the phone that it's directly behind the flywheel). Sigh. (At the three different brand dealers I go to, the parts guys always seem to be clueless about parts, where I'm amazed at how long it takes them to look stuff up, for example, where I can find things quicker than they can).

They printed this out for me which is the part they should have ordered.

Their P/N (11381A) doesn't fit with what a search finds (90311-88003).

I'd really like to replace that seal even though it isn't leaking, because if it does ever leak, you have to remove the transmission to get to it.

I'll try another dealer tomorrow (there are two within 30 miles of me).

Yup. I'm taking all your advice. The kit comes with a pilot bearing:

The amazing thing is that I went to two parts stores today, both of which rent out the pilot bearing puller and slide hammer (separately), where the amazing thing is that the bearing pullers are all TOO BIG to fit inside this pilot bearing!

The people at both stores tried to fit it inside the new bearing, which, luckily, I had in my pocket, where they're too fat even though you can slide the teeth forward one at a time.

It's pretty amazing since this looks like a pretty standard engine and so it has a pretty standard pilot bearing, right? The pilot bearing is a "6201 RS" which is a very common bearing for lots of shafts.

The tool is two pieces, as you noted.

1. A slide hammer that screws into the back end of the tool
2. The tool itself, which has both sliding and expanding jaws

Yet, both bearing pullers I tested at those two parts stores were too big.

I could rent one, and then grind it down to fit, but that would be abuse. If I could have found a tool that fit, I would have bought it already.

I'm not worried though, as the packed-grease method Terry Coombs suggested might work anyway, and where I might have to do that if I can't find a small enough pilot-bearing removal tool.

Thanks Clare,

You have, by far, the most experience here and I have, by far, the least, hence I appreciate the advice.

I was worried about getting the flywheel off, but it came out easily once I put a 1/2-inch-socket breaker bar to the ten 14-mm 12-point bolts:

I had to wait all day for the new flywheel to arrive, which it did late in the day. So I'm sorry for the lousy before-and-after picture below but it was taken at night when I got home.

Looking at the flywheel, I can't visually see or feel anything that is any lesser quality, where the box for the new flywheel has OE all over it, and inside stickers saying it meets OEM specs.

I was surprised the new flywheel is almost the same thickness as the original, the difference being almost imperceptible ... which I can measure tomorrow, but you can barely feel it.

I had expected the new flywheel to be a lot thicker than the old one since I know the original has about 180K miles on it and it was supposedly turned once at somewhere around 80K miles sometime around 2005.

Going to the dealer for the rear oil seal was an experience in futility.

I've got a can a primer around here someplace but I seldom use it. YMMV. It helps if the threads are very sloppy or it's cold and you want to speed up the setting.

That can work great. But the biggest problem is finding a drift or bar stock that EXACTLY fits the pilot bearing ... especially if the latter is badly worn and possibly distorted. It is definitely worth a try though, if you can't find a tool that fits.

It is hell to have to pull a damn engine to get the crankshaft out for some piddly problem. Time and $$$. Sometimes though, it just works out that way, so we just have to keep pulling wrenches and grin and bear it :)

Clutches have gotten much better in the last few decades. Some of the old cars from the 40's and 50's had to have the clutch routinely serviced/replaced about every 50K miles. The durn brakes had to be adjusted every few thousand miles, and tuneups with new points.

I drove a small 1990 ford FWD car for 250,000 miles and never replaced the clutch, though lots of other things needed minor repairs. But I never abused the clutch ... There were no teenage drivers.

The point is to not overdo this. The car may up and die from some unrelated cause after you have gone the full 9 yards and spent a small fortune.

If it wasn't Elvis Presley's car, or a priceless antique, your investment is wiped out when it dies.

Good luck, and hoping you fix that buggy soon!

Thanks to the suggestions from Terry & Clare and others, the pilot bearing is out.

I first tried the grease gun with an M12x1.25 bolt but my gun is old (it's from the 1940's AFAIK) and it wasn't working well and the grease was too thin (but I left it in the hot sun to take pictures and that didn't help).

I used the wife's home made pizza, chewed up, and placed in the pilot hole.

An M12x1.25 bolt that I bought to make dowel pins out of worked fine with parafilm wrapped on the threads to snug it up a bit.

It only took about 10 minutes but it took am amazing number of refills.

Thanks everyone for that idea. Since the clutch fork fell out while I was tipping the transmission on its end to look at the rear seal, everything is out now (I just have to figure out how it all goes back together!).

Thanks Clare. I'm pretty much ready for reassembly.

I'm not sure if I pack the pilot bearing area with grease or not:

But here's that promised before & after flywheel photo with part numbers stamped "Engineerd in USA PHT50-136-033118" on the new flywheel:

One screwup is that the clutch fork and throwout bearing fell out when I tipped the transmission vertical on the bell housing to look at the rear seal where I'm not sure what the proper technique is to get it out.

So I'm looking up how they went back together where I should have marked the position when I first took the transmission off the engine.

Most of my mistakes and questions are because I've never done this before. Thanks for your patience and advice.

EDIT: I sent this yesterday but I see it failed and was still in my inbox.

Hi Clare, Thanks for that advice as I hadn't thought of that (I keep doing things after you mention them because I don't know what you'll mention).

You have a good point there. I'm not a mechanical engineer. I didn't realize the 3RZFE bolts should be replaced since I didn't see that anywhere.

What you say makes sense. I'll back them out tomorrow and re-torque them to the original spec. I did make sure that I put all 10 bolts in, and then tightened all ten, and then removed each in a star pattern, one by one, to torque them so that the torque would be even.

I did the same on the 6 bolts of the diaphragm.

I stopped at the point of putting the transmission back in as I have to modify the jack because of a stupid placement of the front-to-back lever where it hits the transmission and can't go as far as I need it.

I also knocked off loose the throw out bearing, so I'm going to rubber band the fork at the outside so that doesn't happen gain.

I also moved the dowel pins I made so that both are on the bottom because I couldn't see the one at the top anyway.

Here are some shots, but I have to finish this job so they're not annotated well.

I first hand tightened and then tool tightened all 10 flywheel bolts, and then removed them one at a time in a star pattern to torque and loctite blue them where I then painted a white dot indicating bolts that are done.

You can stick a 10mm battery holddown rod into the flywheel holes to immobilize it but you're still going to need to immobilize the flywheel later by wedging a prybar against the teeth, so it's a waste of time to use the rod and, besides, it gets in the way of long torque wrenches.

This is the clutch disc on the flywheel showing the correct alignment of the springs, which face toward the transmission.

Putting the clutch on the flywheel was a breeze, where I jammed a prybar into the flywheel teeth to immobilize it, and where I put the alignment tool in the center. It was so easy, I'm not sure what would have happend without the alignment tool as there was nothing that I needed to align that I could tell.

I have to modify the jack which is stupidly designed such that you can't twist the lever for adjustment when the transmission is on the jack. Also I have to rubber-band the clutch fork so it doesn't fall loose again when I'm jiggling the transmission into place.

I greased the TOB fork but I need thicker grease than Mobile 1 bearing grease:

This shows the clutch on the engine with the temporary dowel pins ready:

Hi Clare, You probably won't respond in time to help advise, me, but it's just not going in.

I remember folks discussing putting the transmission in high gear (fifth in this case), but I can't see why - but maybe it's to twist the transmission shaft so that the male splined shaft at the front can be rotated a bit to fit into the engine female splines?

I've been in neutral up until now, but I put the transmission in fifth but what do you turn to rotate the shaft at the front?

The only thing there is are the splines on the back, but how do you turn them? You can't get your fingers in there and you need a female spline which you won't have.

I'm stuck. Do people normally have to rotate the transmission shaft? How do you rotate it?

Make sure the engine and transmission are meeting at the correct angles. They have to be going in straight to each other. Check to make sure you haven't knocked the clutch disk out of alignment.

Did you try both the clutch disk and the pilot brearing on the trans before assembly? If they fit ok then keep jigging the trans or back it out and turn the shaft a couple of degrees by hand and try again. Where is the drive shaft? Can you plug it into the back of the trans? Tie the other end up on something to get it ~level.

Ah. No. I didn't even think of that. Luckily it must fit - but that is a GREAT idea as a double check!

I jiggled with my head by the differential and my feet up on the transmission (boy am I glad I removed the crossmember!) and jiggled that transmission like it was a bowl of jelly. Something in all that jiggling worked!

Thanks for that idea of the drive shaft. It's right here, but it never occurred to me to use it. Now I know! Thanks.

I wonder if it's normal to have to move the transmission front shaft by about 1/16 of an inch or so to make sure the splines line up with those inside the pressure plate and clutch disc?

Pictures later.... got to get back to the job before nightfall.