Re: ATF, ATF filter, and ATF pan gasket Change Procedure

How's that for a comprehensively titled subject line {LOL}

Tony, in addition to the excellent advice from Hachiroku and Ray, you might want to review the following tutorial from Amsoil about changing the ATF.

Keep in mind that the steps in the tutorial may differ slightly depending upon the type of car you have. You didn't mention your car's model, or anything else in the body of your message, which was blank--only your subject line appeared.

Anyway, this is a good, general tutorial that will be helpful. I've added my own Camry-sepcific notes to it in square brackets [ ] .

Incidentally, although the 2006 Camry manual says Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) doesn't need to be changed in the Camry unless you drive under one of the Special Operating conditions like on dusty roads or while towing, I think if you own the car long enough--say for 120,000 miles--it's a good idea to change the ATF, its filter, and the ATF pan's gasket, and to clean out the pan really well after 120,000 miles.

Here's the good ATF change procedure guide I found at Amsoil.com [my special notes again are in brackets]. The guide is dated 3 years ago: 9/26/2005.

OBJECTIVE:

To provide the proper automatic transmission fluid and filter change procedures.

ISSUES:

Many quick lube oil change companies are using flushing machines to change the automatic transmission fluid. Using flushing machines does not address the need for cleaning the sediment in the transmission pan, cleaning the magnet inside the transmission pan, or changing the transmission oil filter.

TECHNICAL DISCUSSION:

Flushing machines are used to provide a quick transmission fluid change, however they do not address transmission pan cleanliness or filter changes. By taking the transmission pan off, sediment in the pan as well as the magnet can be cleaned, and the fluid filter can be changed. Manufacturers recommend a filter change with the oil change, and recommend against the use of flushing machines due to possible fluid contamination from pan sediment. [Built_Well's Note: "oil change" in the previous sentence must be referring to the AT fluid change. Sometimes Automatic Transmission Fluid is referred to as Automatic Transmission oil, I believe.]

RECOMMENDATION:

AMSOIL recommends transmission fluid and filter changes based on the following 14 steps. For a transmission pan and filter oil change follow steps 1 through 12 and 14, for a complete system flush and filter change follow steps 1 through 14.

1. Access the AMSOIL web page
   formatting link
   and click on the On Line Product Applications Guide for the correct transmission fluid, amount of fluid and transmission filter before starting the transmission and filter change procedure.

[Built_Well's Note: Better yet, get the ATF fluid, ATF filter, and ATF pan's gasket from your Toyota dealer, or at least check in with them to see what they have. Whatever you do, *DON'T* go to Jiffy Lube. You'll recall the debacle my old Tercel had at Jiffy Lube with a "routine" coolant change. By the way, the ATF pan's gasket sells for about $16--not expensive.]

Have these on hand when starting the fluid and filter change. If the on-line Product Application Guide does not list your information, contact AMSOIL Technical Department for help.

1. For best results, transmission fluid should be at normal operating temperature before draining the fluid (Caution: fluid will be hot).

1. With the engine off, position a drain pan under the transmission pan and drain the fluid by loosening the pan bolts. Loosen one corner more than the rest to direct the flow into the drain pan. [BW's Note: Luckily, the Camry's ATF pan has a drain plug, so you can drain the much of the AT fluid /before/ removing the ATF pan (and its

18 bolts that the Camry uses.]

1. Finish removing the transmission pan bolts, and lower the transmission pan down carefully (some fluid is still in the transmission pan).

2. Remove the old filter and discard. Most transmission filters are held in place with a bolt or two, however, some are held by a clip. Make sure filter O-rings or seals are discarded with the filter.

1. Install the new filter by using the same bolts or clips and use a new O-ring or seal (supplied with the new filter).

2. Inspect the pan before cleaning. A small amount of fine gray clutch dust is normal. However, if you find metal shavings, there could be a mechanical malfunction or transmission damage.

1. Clean the transmission pan thoroughly with solvent and wipe dry so there is no harmful residue. In some transmission pans there is also a magnet that should be cleaned and reinstalled in the same position in the transmission pan. [Built_Well's Note: there are 2 magnets inside the 2006 Camry's ATF pan, according to the repair and service manual at CamryStuff.com.] Clean the transmission and transmission pan mating surfaces of all gasket material being careful not to damage the surfaces.

2. Position the transmission pan gasket on the pan. Some gaskets have four holes slightly smaller than the rest to allow threading four bolts through the pan and through these smaller gasket holes to hold the gasket in place.

1. Hand-tighten the transmission bolts in a crisscross pattern until snug. Use a torque wrench to tighten the bolts to the proper ft-lbs using the manufacturer recommended torque specifications.

2. Refill the transmission through the dipstick fill hole using the amount shown as =C3=A2=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BDrefill capacity=C3= =A2=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD in the owner=C3=A2=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BDs manual or the AMSOIL =C3=A2=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF= =BDproduct Selection Guide=C3=A2=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD (G-50).

[Built_Well's Note: the Camry owner's manual states that the AT fluid's "drain and fill" capacity is 3.7 quarts. The "total fill" capacity is 9.3 quarts, according to the online Amsoil product guide; that's for the 5-speed automatic transmission. So a whole lot of the AT fluid (about 60 percent) will be in the torque converter. About 40 percent will be in the ATF pan itself.]

1. If performing a transmission pan fluid replacement only, skip to instruction 14. If doing a complete transmission pan and torque converter fluid replacement, follow the steps in instruction 13.

2. Follow these additional 5 steps for complete transmission pan and torque converter fluid replacement.

1) Obtain the total transmission fluid capacity from the manufacturer or AMSOIL and have that amount of transmission fluid available. 2) Place a drain pan large enough to hold the total fluid capacity under the oil cooler. Disconnect the oil cooler lines from the oil cooler and direct the lines toward the drain pan. 3) With another person, be prepared to add ATF to the transmission fill hole (dipstick hole) at the approximate rate as the fluid is being pumped out the transmission line into the drain pan. 4) Start the engine, and as the old fluid is pumped out, add fresh fluid into the transmission fill hole. 5) When either the fluid color brightens or the total capacity has been replaced, shut the engine off and re-attach the oil cooler lines. All fluid in the transmission pan and torque converter has now been changed.

1. With the vehicle on level ground recheck the fluid level using the manufacturer procedures outlined in the owners manual. Check the transmission and lines for leaks.

[Built_Well's Note: By the way, there's also some very useful information about ATF changes in my post from December 6, 2007, in the thread titled "How did Toyota do that".

In 10 years, some of us probably will be only half way to

120,000 miles--probably 60,000 miles for me, for example. Is it still a good idea to change the AT fluid every 10 years, even if you've only gone 60,000 miles or less? ]

Link to Amsoil ATF tutorial:

[Now here are some quoted passages taken from the 5th generation Camry's repair and service manual currently available at CamryStuff.com .

Here's how to check your ATF fluid level] :

AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE FLUID, ON=C3=A2=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BDVEHICLE INSPECTION

1. CHECK FLUID LEVEL

HINT: Drive the vehicle so that the engine and transaxle are at normal operating temperature. Fluid temperature: 70 =C3=A2=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD 80 =C3=82=C2=B0C (158 =C3=A2= =EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD 176 =C3=82=C2=B0F)dd

(a) Park the vehicle on a level surface and set the parking brake.

(b) With the engine idling and the brake pedal depressed, shift the shift lever into all positions from P to L position and return to P position.

(c) Take out the dipstick and wipe it clean.

(d) Put it back fully into the pipe.

(e) Take it out and check that the fluid level is in the HOT position.

If there are leaks, it is necessary to repair or replace O=C3=A2=EF=BF=BD= =EF=BF=BDrings, FIPGs, oil seals, plugs or other parts.

111111111111111111111111111111111 [Built_Well's Note: The Camry repair and service manual didn't seem to have a section devoted solely to changing the ATF fluid, pan, and gasket, but it did include the necessary steps to do so couched in other repairs like replacing the transmission wire and replacing the transmission valve body assembly.]

1. REMOVE ENGINE UNDERCOVER LH [LH may mean left-hand/side; RH, right-hand/side. I guess this is the plastic protective cover/skirt underneath the front end. This step may or may not be necessary when your job is simply to remove the ATF pan and gasket. I would have to crawl under the front chassis again to find out, but I won't be doing that until my next motor oil change is due in October.]

2. DRAIN AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE FLUID

(a) Remove the drain plug and gasket, and drain ATF.

(b) Install a new gasket and drain plug. Torque: 49 N=C3=A2=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BDm (500 kgf=C3=A2=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BDc= m, 36 ft=C3=A2=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BDlbf)

[Built_Well's Note: Notice that the Toyota manual instructs to install a new ATF drain plug gasket. (Ray forgot to mention this part. There's no doubt Ray is an expert, but even experts make mistakes, sometimes often [chuckle] :-P

1. REMOVE AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE OIL PAN SUB=C3=A2=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BDASSY

(a) Remove the 18 bolts, oil pan and gasket.

NOTICE: Some fluid will remain in the oil pan. Remove all pan bolts, and carefully remove the oil pan assembly.

(b) Remove the 2 magnets from the oil pan.

(c) Examine particles in pan. (1) Remove the magnets and use them to collect any steel chips. Look carefully at the chips and particles in the pan and the magnet to anticipate what type of wear you will find in the transaxle. Steel (magnetic): bearing, gear and plate wear Brass (non=C3=A2=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BDmagnetic): bearing wr

222222222222222222222222222222222

INSTALL AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE OIL PAN SUB=C3=A2=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BDASSY

(a) Install the 2 magnets in the oil pan.

(b) Apply seal packing or equivalent to 18 bolts. Seal packing: THREE BOND 2430 or equivalent

(c) Install a new gasket, oil pan and 18 bolts to the transaxle case. Torque: Torque: 7.8 N-m (80 kgf-cm, 69 in.-lbf)

NOTICE: Because the bolts should be seal bolts, apply seal packing to bolts and tighten them within 10 minutes after application.

[End of info from the Toyota repair and service manual.]

////////////////////////////////////////////////////

By the way, this is the DISCLAMER that is attached to Amsoil's tutuorial:

The automatic transmission fluid and filter change procedures are meant to serve as guidelines only. These guidelines do not take into consideration variations between vehicles. Changing transmission fluid should only be conducted by individuals with the proper mechanical knowledge and training. Personal injury and/or transmission problems can occur when the proper precautions are not followed. If in doubt, have your transmission serviced by individuals capable of performing this function.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////

How's that for a comprehensively titled subject line {LOL}

Tony, in addition to the excellent advice from Hachiroku and Ray, you might want to review the following tutorial from Amsoil about changing the ATF.

Keep in mind that the steps in the tutorial may differ slightly depending upon the type of car you have. You didn't mention your car's model, or anything else in the body of your message, which was blank--only your subject line appeared.

Anyway, this is a good, general tutorial that will be helpful. I've added my own Camry-sepcific notes to it in square brackets [ ] .

*********** It depends on one's definition of "good." The Camry does not have a transmissoin filter, just a screen.

As I mentioned before, the screen does not need periodic replacement.

Yes, but I wasn't talking about the gasket for the ATF pan. I was talking about the small gasket for the ATF drain plug. You ommited to mention that gasket--a common mistake or oversight; I wouldn't worry about it :-P

Just like the engine oil's drain plug has a small round, washer-like gasket, so does the ATF pan's drain plug.

I'll quote the Camry service and repair manual again:

1. DRAIN AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE FLUID

(a) Remove the drain plug and gasket, and drain ATF.

(b) Install a new gasket and drain plug.

Torque: 36 ft-lbf

I guess you got me there. I'll admit that I do not check a repair manual every time I post advice here because if I did, I would not get anything else done. For example after I got home from work around 7:00, tonight, I pulled the wheels off of our troop's trailer, inspected the tires (failed), put the trailer on jack stands so we could take the wheels to have new tires mounted, checked the brakes on a friend's truck (passed) and inflated his tires, sat in the driveway and chatted with my friend, sorted and inspected my climbing gear for this weekend, dug out some pictures that were buried in the garage for my mom, played with my son's new puppy, cleaned out the spam folder for our office, responded to some e-mails, did the dishes, and watched Two and Half Men, caught a few minutes of Mythbusters, scrolled past all of the OT nonsense in this NG, and thought about responses to questions and posts here.

Although this is not strictly "by the book," as a practical matter, you can get away with re-using fiber gaskets many times without leaks if you properly tighten the drain plug. Although "book" advice is always good, I have worked on a few cars here and there and try to share my experience and give practical advice that can save people time and money that has worked for me over the years. I also try to leave out irrelevant information and advice, like telling someone to change something like a transmission screen that does not need changing. Changing ATF is not rocket science, and unless the OP is totally clueless about working on cars, my 2-paragraph response should give the OP enough information to do the job without having to read twenty-something paragraphs and try do decide if something is relevant for his car or not.

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Your wife must love you for doing the dishes :-)

Like you, I had a busy day yesterday, too, and did my own dishes :-) {chuckle}

Just to explain a bit: Since I always post from a UNIX shell account located in Nebraska, even though I'm in Missouri, it may not seem like I'm busy (since the same IP number always appears in my headers), but I think I did even more yesterday than you :-)

In fact, I'm sure everyone here does a lot everyday :-)

Anyway, I pat you on the back for helping out your friend with his brakes. In all actuality, you probably were a little busier than I was yesterday :-)

I don't know, she prepares dinner, so doing the dishes is no big deal.

Could be, that list was only after I got home from work.

Today was a little busier - I had 6 appointments/meetings/showings all in different directions, then I got home waited out a line of heavy thunderstorms, greased the trailer wheel bearings through the bearing buddies (NOT the preferred method but I didn't have time to pull them and pack them properly), put the wheels back on the trailer, ate dinner, did the dishes, and checked a.a.t. I still have to read a 22 page purchase contract and a 38 page lease contract, prepare a spreadsheet and offer to sublease, and request a lease proposal so I can't hang out here too long.

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BobJ, very interesting post. Lemme say I will give the

2006 Camry /Maintenance Guide/ credit for pointing out that the ATF should be inspected every 30,000 miles (or 3 years) and replaced every 60,000 miles if driving while towing.

But, I think I agree with you. I don't give much credit to the author(s) of the Camry's /Owner's Manual/ for saying that the ATF doesn't need to be changed if you don't drive under the Special Operating Conditions described in the /Maintenance Guide/. And the only Special Operating Condition mentioned in the Maintenance Guide that requires replacing the ATF at 60,000 miles is driving while towing. As you point out, it seems kind of like taking too much of a chance or risk, especially considering the cost of repairing a transmission.

In the Camry's case, it doesn't take much time to simply drain the ATF pan through the pan's convenient drain plug, and filling the pan back up through the ATF filler hole under the hood.

That won't get 100 percent of the old ATF out, but it will get about 40 percent out each time. It's pretty simple to do, and BobJ has convinced me that it's a very good idea.

BobJ, maybe you should help edit the Camry's Owner's Manual :-)

Car manufacturers' notion of "life of car" is quite different from that of many owners. Given only a portion of the fluid drains out IMO it should be done every 15K miles and the strainer with it, if not more often.

So what's the state of the ATF in your Camry?

I do this too. It's easy and cheap to replace that 40 percent by just a drain and fill. Do it regularly (10 k) and you will replace most of the fluid to give the trans a long healthy life. I live in a hot climate. It's even easier than an oil change so why not.

Earlier I wrote that the total fill for the 2006 Camry's AT fluid is 9.3 quarts. That's true for the V6 Camry which uses the U151E transmission, but the 4-cylinder 2006 Camry uses the U250E transmission, which has a total fill of 8.5 quarts.

If just doing a simple ATF drain-and-fill, just 3.7 quarts is required for both the U151E and the U250E, because most of the rest of the ATF is in the torque converter, in the AT oil cooler (the short length of pipe underneath the radiator), and in the hoses which connect to the AT oil cooler.

The 2 hoses on my Camry leading from the transmission to the AT oil cooler are actually labeled with the words "AT Oil." Toyota helpin' out to simplify things :-)

I don't think I'll ever do anything more than a drain-and-fill of the ATF, though. When I crawled under the chassis to take a look at the ATF pan, I saw that several of the 18 bolts are recessed away in hard-to-reach awkward spots. You'd have to be plastic man to reach those bolts or have really flexible tools.

Has anyone ever removed their own car's ATF pan to replace its gasket and screen-filter or clean the magnets and clean the ATF pan itself? I guess after 20 years it might make sense...

Why do the ATF hoses come into play when you drain/refill? How about using the drain plug?

The U250E, like many other U-series transmission, suffer from shift problems. IMO the older A-series, while dirtier, was more reliable. After driving highway speeds and decelerating the U250E may exhibit a harsh 5-4 shift.

Get a new shift solenoid free before the powertrain warranty expires!!

T-SB-0033-08 April 15, 2008 Harsh 5-4 Downshift on Deceleration

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The ATF hoses don't come into play if you're just doing a regular drain-and-fill, but they do come into play if you want to drain /all/ of the ATF out, including the almost 60 percent that's in the torque converter.

A regular drain-and-fill that gets out 40 percent of the ATF should suffice, though :-)

Thanks for mentioning the solenoid. I will consider getting the free replacement, but I really haven't had any down-shifting problem with the car.

Do you have a copy or link to the TSB?

It is not necessary to replace the screen, clean the magnets, or clean the transmission pan (it is not called an "ATF" pan) itself under normal conditions any more than you would drop the engine oil pan.. I just did it on our Escort because it doesn't have a transmission pan drain plug, but your Camry has a handy dandy drain plug, which makes dropping the transmission pan unnecessary. If the transmission pan has an FIPG, there is a pretty good chance that you would end up with a transmission leak when you're done.

A dealer will not install a new part for free just because a TSB is issued. The vehicle has to exhibit or meet the conditions described in the TSB before any warranty work will be performed.

Even removing the cooler lines won't get the fluid out of the converter.

The only way to drain a converter while it's installed is to remove it's drain plug (IF it has one most don't) or to drill a hole in the converter and drain it, then use a SHORT rivet or screw to seal the hole. That isn't a good idea in most cases since it is VERY easy to damage the internals unless you know EXACTLY where you can drill.

Also a TSB is NOT a recall. It is only a notice to mechanics to look at that part as a possible source of the stated problem. Basically the manufacturer is telling them "hey we think this part may be the cause of this failure, so replace it if you see this problem"

It is NOT a free repair either. It is ONLY done if your vehicle is exhibiting the stated problem AND needs the repair. You will still get billed for it.

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Well, you're right, Ray. That's why I said after 20 years...

And I'm nearly certain it's not an FIPG (formed-in-place or foam-in-place) gasket. Instead you buy the gasket at the dealership for $16.

A challenge with the 18 bolts is they each require seal packing that must be applied within a certain time limit. Plus 5 or 6 of the bolts are really hard to get to.

But as I mentioned, this is a job that you might want to do after 20 years, not regularly.

Sure, even some "recalls" would require inspecting things like timing belt date code etc. But a lot of owners out there don't realize they have problems and never got the free parts they should get. They think some rough shifts are just "normal."

That's why always read the TSBs (try google) and check carefully if your car exhibits the described problem. After all, if you don't complain it doesn't get fixed!!

Calling a "fluid exchange machine" a "flush machine" is false advertising.

The "fluid exchange machines" are accurate to within 95% and it only exchanges old for new fluids. But it doesn't clean the pan for you. I don't think people use "flush" machines anymore. Don't jam the valve bodies with one.

How many 20 year old transmission screens (actually called a strainer) have you looked at that need replacement? I haven't seen any. Have you ever even seen a transmission strainer?

FIPG = formed-in-place gasket.

I've mentioned several times that changing the transmission strainer is not necessary, but you do not have to take my word and experience for it. Read the owner's manual and factory repair manual and see if you can find any recommendation from the folks who built the car to ever change the strainer as part of a preventative maintenance procedure.

I don't know why you are so insistent on changing the strainer. In close to

40 years of working on cars, I have never seen a transmission fail because the strainer wasn't changed. For 15 of those years, that included talking to over 100 dealers who worked on hundreds of thousands of vehicles.

If changing the engine oil or getting lug nuts tightened properly is a challenge, then dropping the pan, changing the strainer, and getting to back together without trashing your $3,000 transmission is going to be a HUGE challenge. On a 20 year old vehicle, you will likely snap several bolts off and have to drill and tap the transmission case, and if that is not done correctly, the transmission is trashed. If the magnets are placed in the incorrect position, they can block one or more fluid tubes, which could trash the transmission. If the gasket slips out of position or the bolts are not tightened correctly, the fluid could leak out, which would trash the transmission. In other words, why take so many chances to trash the transmission to do something that is unnecessary?