Consumer Reports: GM's Volt 'doesn't really make a lot of sense'

In message , Scott Dorsey writes

Whilst efficiency is important in overall terms, it low internal resistance that gives the motor the volts and amps it wants.

In message , Roger Blake writes

All it needs is a bit of imaginative thinking. Trains get their juice from either a static rail or overhead cable. What's wrong in putting strips over hundreds of miles of motorway and allow cars to pick up juice on the move, batteries then only for towns and parking?

We all just as well give up arguing, Roger won't ever "get it". Not everybody who wants a Prius is a "tree hugging eco-weenie" which BTW note how the ICE lovers are always strong burly manly men and anyone else is a weenie.

I want a Prius not for any global environmental impact, real or imagined I want it partly for the local impact but mostly for the power possibilities ala the Pri-UPS project (use the car as a near silent 5kw backup generator). I couldn't care less about AGW but what I do care about is sitting behind cars like Roger's at a red light and having to put up with his un-catalytic converter-ed exhaust. Call me selfish but it is my lungs after all (I don't smoke either).

Other than that people who go "a certain compact or subcompact from 1988 got the same MPG as a Prius" don't get it either. The Prius is a midsize built primarily for low emissions, not for MPG. The fact that it gets better MPG than a smaller vehicle, such as the Echo/Yaris (which uses the same engine) is just a bonus. That it gets better MPG than a smaller Diesel car is amazing considering the no throttle loss and more energy (and cost) per gallon of Diesel. For instance it (NHW20 US model) has a wideband front O2 sensor, a Thermos bottle (Dewar flask) that stores hot coolant to help it warm up faster, a flexible/inflatable "bladder" in the fuel tank and a filler neck seal that stops the escape of vapors that make you smell like gas, and when first started cold it drives on battery power and runs the ICE with extremely retarded ignition timing to send more heat out the exhaust manifold and help "light off" the catalytic converter faster.

Other than that I don't want the ZVW30 Prius (2010,2011-...) because IMO they FUBARed it with the interior dash/console suspended arch, they removed the Thermos bottle if favor of an exhaust heat recovery device, removed the fuel bladder, changed the hydraulic braking system, and bumped the engine from a 1.5 to a 1.8.

Until I can get an NHW20 I will just keep driving my 2nd gen Lumina 3100 with the MIL on for an EGR insufficient flow code until summer when I can pull the intake and clean the passages and replace the gaskets.

Had that last year on mine, a '97. Just pulled the EGR, put a short section of dog cable in a drill, and cleaned the port from there. I had picked up an EGR gasket at a parts store for a buck or two, but could have used the old gasket. Hardest thing was finding the dog cable. I had read that thick weed whacker cable would work, but only had thin stuff. Don't think ANY weed whacker cable would have cleared it, as it was almost solidly plugged. Then I spotted the old kinked dog cable behind a box in the garage, It's stranded, and about 3/16" to 1/4" thick. Think about having something like that when you start. Even if you pull the throttle body, you need to clean that passage..

--Vic

How is any of this relevant?

It's frustrating talking to you guys. It's always the same thing - everybody knows the major problem is with the batteries. It's the reason we all ain't driving electric cars. WE GOT THAT, OK?

Thanks for the tip. I had tried using a coathanger wire as mine, also a '97 was so plugged that the idle didn't even change much when I pulled the valve with it running, it helped for awhile and made the light intermittent but it has been solidly on since the beginning of winter. Luckily I have access to a 2 post lift and an OTC 4000 Enhanced scanner with the Pathfinder 96 software and it shows GM specific stuff. Having both always helps.

No, if they tried charging prices that high here, we'd have a change of government. Most of that 9.91 is taxes, not fuel cost.

In message , aemeijers writes

Agreed about the taxes, but the price I was mentioning was because our news is full of 73 oil crisis doom at the moment and I just wondered how it would play over there if fuel went to the prices that we pay. Also remember that the duty we pay on fuel is fixed so when fuel goes up, like you we pay more, but much lower increase in proportion.

Most of those taxes, though, go for maintaining road infrastructure that you use when you burn gasoline. Whereas in the US we can't seem to keep specific-use taxes segregated.

I don't mind high gas prices if it means roads are maintained better. I only mind paying a gas tax which gets used for something totally unrelated.

--scott

Are you aware that the US government is driving the cost of labor up by taxing it at the rate they do?

By not taxing workers wages heavily and by providing national health care European countries don't add as much to the cost of labor that means manufacturing jobs tend to not migrate away This is because of reduced labor costs and increased transportation costs

The US government drives the cost of fuel down by not taxing it heavily and using the tax from labor to finance expensive foreign policy to keep the price of fuel low

Some of the consequence of this is that jobs migrate to other countries and fuel is used wastefully

If instead of that taxation scheme fuel was heavily taxed for government revenue and labor was cheaper due to reduction in payroll taxes and health insurance costs

Then

More of the goods that people buy locally would be made by workers with local jobs instead of workers half-way around the world

-jim

I have one or two sets of paper plans here that I ordered from somewhere (I forget where) back in the 1970's.You can convert a gas car to electric.Government surplus electric motor, deep cycle batteries, a speed controller using a few auto starter motor solenoids, an adapter plate. (home made adapter plate or whatever) If I was going to 'roll my own', I would buy a cheap clunker car or pickup truck or van from a junkyard and get at it.The KISS principle. cuhulin

's-Volt-'doesn't-really-make-a-lot-of-sense' >

The cost of electricity in CT is hovering around $0.25 a KWH, so cost savings is virtually nil for this vehicle. Add to that that 50% of electrical generation in this country is generated through burning coal, the carbon footprint savings are marginal, at best. A hybrid makes much more sense.

50% of electrical generation in the US is through the burning of coal. This negates "green features" of this car. Depending on where you live, the electrical costs could be equal to or higher than the equivalent fuel costs. As we (the general American public) buy into the liberal hysteria about these types of vehicles, electrical distribution costs will go even higher as new infrastructure is needed. Imagine a few million of these in Cal, where rolling brownouts are the norm. If anything, the hybrid is a better choice, IMO.

I did realize that the electricity would have to come from a factory although I'm not so sure that it's cleaner to convert oil to gasoline using coal or oil and then transport it in some way using more coal or oil or gas or diesel and then use some electricity to pump it into our tanks and then finally burning the gas in a piston engine. My guess is that you'd be able to go a lot farther on a buck of electricity vs a buck of gas - although that's just a guess on my part. The way we distribute electricity will have to be rebuilt but I'm assuming that we can do it.

I will wait for the "watt", and luxo Cadillac version the "Kilo-watt". Maybe they will replace the Corvette with the "amp". But it still see great "resistance" from the general public. "Inductance" into the car hall of fame is doubtful. It will be helpful to have a large trunk "capacitance" for gear. When the electric owners get that large home electric bill, it will be "Power Factor" time in figuring out if its practical at all. Turning on the "AC" will have a whole new meaning.

bob

Folks had trouble accepting seat belts, fuel injection, air bags, disc brakes, radial tires etc While I find the resistance to EV's silly, I guess I should have expected it.. Ben

No kidding, a proper EV is about 4 miles per KWh (250Wh per mile), that makes 16 miles per dollar for you. Current gas prices mean a 50MPG vehicle is about 15 miles per dollar.

****** They pollute automatically with the CO2 output.

True.. I dont resist them, really, as a concept. I resist them personally and I think that they are, at this time, a rather poor choice of technology. Why do I care at all? Because lurking in there, I know I will be paying a part of this.