double tipped electrodes = more power?

And in english, a "*" is actually a ___________?

There is a lot of noise out there on this subject. In some applications dual tipped plat plugs are the ticket. Chrysler uses them and there is a OEM type plug of this ilk for the PT Cruiser and the 3.8 motor used in the mini-van.

But, and a strong "but", a new plug of the proper type and heat range and properly gapped will give the same performance as any super duper expensive plug. The advantage in the correct application stems from the fact that a dual plat plug may stay in spec longer. In a vehicle where the plugs are hard to change this is an advantage. In such vehicles a change in the hard to get to plug wires is also a good idea. Some applications, such as turbo charged motors, often don't do well with plat tipped plugs. Your vender is a good source for recommendations.

Richard.

Well, there are two types of these plugs.

One type has a notch or other oddness with the cneter electrode. The reality is that you want a big chunk of metal there unless it's a ceramic type design like the Bosch Platinum. Taking metal OUT of the electrode just makes it wear out faster.

The other type has the prongs at the top/outside with a dent in them, or in some cases, multiple ones. Splitfire, etc.

IME, the best design is a big electrode and two seperate, full-sized prongs. These can be had for about 20-30 cents more than plain plugs.

"*" = something that comes out the north end of a southbound bull.

Depends on the car. I know you said you had a Camry, but what year? How many miles? If it's a NEW car and doesn't burn any oil by all means install the plats. But if it's an old smoker, you will be better served by regular old copper core plugs. Plats don't like to get oil fouled - they never clean themselves once it happens and you'll have a perpetual miss until you replace them. There's nothing wrong with non-platinum plugs at all - they just erode quicker than the plats. If you replace them at the recommended intervals they will be just fine.

nate

Approximately 10/7/03 11:03, Don Bruder uttered for posterity:

Shorthand for the poem that goes thusly:

Mary had a little car, she drove it very brisk. Wasn't Mary a silly sort, her little *

Or don't. I've had consistently awful results with Bosch Platinum spark plugs in all sorts of vehicles from a bunch of manufacturers spanning 4 decades' production dates. Autolite Platinums have worked OK for me, but certainly not Bosches!

This is untrue and makes no sense.

This is true.

DS

It's a 1998 and I think it's pretty clean, doesn't lose any oil between changes, which I try to do at least once every 2 months. I actually called the dealer today (a Toyota dealer) and put the question to the service person that picked up the phone. He said that almost all the Toyotas since

1993 are supposed to use the twin electrode spark plugs although he did say the newest models (2003) are starting to use "iridium" plugs.

The service person told me that the way the engine is made is so it can work best with this twin electrode configuration and that I will probably notice a difference in power if I use them, as opposed to using just single ground electrode plugs. He acted like it was very important or at least important to use the twin ground electrodes. So I may try them.

Thanks once again for the discussion!

Hmm. I called my local Toyota dealer today just to see what they had to say about it and the service person said that almost all (I think he said all) the Toyotas made since 1993 are designed to use this type of spark plug, the double-ground electrode plug. He acted like it was a really good idea to use the plug on my car, a 1998 model instead of the normal type plug, saying it would give me better acceleration and performance. I didn't really press him how much better but clearly he was convinced of the importance of using this twin ground electrode plug type in my car. Wow.

Not sure exactly what makes the Toyota cylinders and pistons so receptive to this type of configuration but it's one thing to hear it from a guy at advance auto and another thing to hear it from the dealer themself!

If I try the plugs, I'll post to let you all know of what I think of them.

Don,

The Toyota service person I called today said that the twin ground electrode spark plugs fire to both ground electrodes on each spark, not just one of them. To me, it makes since because what would be the purpose of having two electrodes if only one of them fired?? Doesn't make since does it?

Now, electricity may take the path of least resistance but it does depend upon what type of circuit you are talking about, I am sure. For example, if you put two light bulbs in parallel and put a small resistor in series with one of them that doesn't mean that only one will light when you hook up a battery does it? But with lightning, we typically see it striking a single thing and not splitting up right before impact so I am not sure how they make it so that the electrodes both get a spark but I am sure Bosch didn't put twin electrodes there so only one of them could fire at a time!

I understand the "in place backup" concept but somehow that doesn't seem to be Bosch's sole purpose in putting two electrodes there instead of just one. Agree?

bosch double or quadruple tips are just wasting your money. and in toyotas they just don't work as well as ngk's. unsure why. stick with the OE style and you'll be golden.

some of the toyota engines require twin electrode plugs, which i THINK has to do with the cylinder head design and swirling on compression and some other fluid dynamics i can't explain.

and as someone else posted, the spark will cross only ONE point per firing, that of least resistance. that really cool picture of like 3 or

4 sparks jumping out the center electrode is just a really cool 'artist rendition'

He's wrong.

Yes, it makes perfect *sense*.

You are wrong. Electricity takes the path of least resistance, every time. There is no "may" about it.

You've been told by a great many people who know a lot more than you do that you're wrong. You're allowed to keep insisting you must be right since the truth doesn't make "since", but you'll still be wrong. The laws of physics do not bend even for the ignorant "Toyota service guy" you called today, but the laws of marketing say that a catchy box and the rehearsed sales pitch of the idiot behind the parts store counter will more often than not get you to waste your money. So, go ahead and waste your money, since you've made up your mind that you're right and the rest of the world is wrong. Or don't. Either way, you've got more than enough information to answer your original question and everything even remotely relevant, so why are you still babbling?

...is to extract money from your wallet. You've been told this. Why is it so goddamn hard for you to believe?

DS

...Of course, I'm sure. "Wow, I put Bosch Super Duper Platinum Plus Nine spark plugs in my car and it gets, like thirty more miles per gallon and is way more smoother!"

(Never mind that the plugs you pulled out were old, incorrect, dirty and misgapped.)

DS

They're not even a new come-on. I have mechanics magazines from the 1950s touting such plugs, making similar bogus claims.

| a "*" is actually a ___________?

• = electric wind, as introduced in the title of my post.

This brings about a question, I know your statement is correct, but it makes me think of ford's dual spark plug 4 clyinder engine. How did the ignition system work on this engine to get two sparks? two coils? Just wondering as I've never seen one in person.

The only thing that a Toyota Dealer is going to tell you is to use what came in your car from the factory. Which is going to be an NGK dual. Since the engines were certified for EPA with these plugs they will not tell you anything else.

Sure it does... the reason that you've had such bad results with the Bosch platinums is that they have such a tiny center electrode and it's also often set back a little bit inside the porcelain insulator. This is somewhat true of other platinum plugs as well, but more so of the Bosches. Once a little combustion chamber gunk - oil, carbon, whatever - manages to completely cover that electrode, there's no path for a spark to take. If a conventional plug with its (relatively) big honkin' center electrode gets fouled, there's probably at least one little corner that's still clean for the spark to jump from, and after a few cycles of decent combustion it will burn off the deposits.

Just curious, to anyone that might know - why are platinum plugs made this way? Why not just have a regular looking electrode design made from platinum, or platinum plated if cost is an issue? One would think that this would be the best of both worlds, but since there's no plug like this that I'm aware of on the market, I assume there's a good reason for not doing so...

nate

Yes, dual coil packs.

Nissan did something similar utilizing dual coils and parallel paths thru the distributor.