Stopped at another shop in town yesterday. The owner had just purchased a 94 BMW 325 to replace the Saab his girlfriend drives. He was in the process of doing a tune-up on the BMW, factory spec sparkplugs are dual ground electrode, looked to be a side gap design. The replacements he was putting in were; NGK BKR6EK (going off memory)...
Whether the dual ground electrodes are fact or fiction, going with factory reccomendations being the best rule to follow, I can't say that in this (these) cases it is a mistake to use the dual electrode plug.
Its certainly true of Bosch platinums. Been there, done that (only it was carbon-fouling from a rich condition that killed them, not oil-fouling). When the hair-thin center electrode wears down below the surrounding ceramic, it can easily get covered by a carbon "plug" which effectively ends the life of the spark plug.
No, from the factory, the centre electrode is *NOT* "often set back a little inside the porcelain insulator". From the factory, the fine-wire centre electrode is flush with the porcelain insulator. Despite platinum's theoretically being proof against all manner of deterioration, the rules of current density and resultant effects still apply, and Bosch's centre electrode is too small for the current density asked of it in many applications (primarily dependent on plug gap). With use, the centre electrode burns away, and *THEN* it is recessed into the porcelain, and THAT is when this sort of problem occurs.
The other problem with Bosch platinums (the fine wire centre electrode simply falling out of the porcelain) is most commonly encountered in turbocharged or supercharged engines, and is moderately less common since the diameter of the centre wire was increased within the plug (beginning with plug date code 667).
Naw, it isn't. Other platinum plugs (Autolite, NGK, etc.) have a conventional electrode design instead of a fully-encapsulated centre electrode, and the electrodes are of sufficient size that current density isn't a problem.
Bosch gimmick. "Lookit our electrode, it looks different!"
That's what everyone *but* Bosch does.
Autolite uses platinum discs welded to conventional electrodes. This works fine.
The last set of Autolite platinums I bought WAS made that way. The center electrode was a bit thinner than on a copper plug, but it was fully exposed and not recessed like the stupid Bosch design.
Agreed. The point is that the original poster has already had this explained to him twelve different ways, and he's STILL babbling and arguing that electricity "may" take the path of least resistance "depending on the circuit".
Also, the Bosch Platinum +2 and +4 plugs likely do not have the form of ground electrode called for by Toyota for this application.
Nutshell version: The service person you spoke to isn't qualified to pour piss out of a boot with instructions on how to do it written on the bottom of the heel. He's a wilfully ignorant fool who has bought into the marketing hype, and knows absolutely nothing of electricity and how it behaves. Simple as that.
Careful, you're trying to buy into the hype, too.
What you're describing is a fairly common electronics item. Yes, current flows through both lamps. However, due to the resistor, the lamp with it attached will likely not be bright enough to detect, since most of the power is going to be flowing through the other, lower resistance, lamp. Also, high-voltage arc behavior is different. A spark plug with two electrodes is not two ready-to-go, completed circuits like your light bulb/resistor concept. It's two *POTENTIAL* circuits, both with "switches" (the air-gap(s)) in the "open" position. The high voltage overcomes the air's insulating qualities through ionzation to form the "wire" that "closes the switch". One prong or the other will always have this "circuit" complete before the other one (even if you and I can't accurately measure how much difference in time there is because it's so small we can't resolve it) and the arc will discharge across it. Once that happens, there isn't enough "oomph" left to ionize the potential jump-path and overcome the air's resistance to complete the circuit to the other prong. The spark is over. Try again next power-stroke/plug-firing.
They don't. Period. It *DOES NOT HAPPEN*. The arc *MAY* hit one side on one spark, and the other side on the next spark, but it will *NEVER* hit both sides on the same spark. Ever. Under any circumstances. World without end, amen.
No, they put twin electrodes on there as a cheap and easy gimmick to remove money from people's wallets and place it in their own. It doesn't
*HARM* anything, and may in fact provide a useful backup function, but at the same time, it doesn't *DO* anything, either. (unless you count having your wallet lightened as "doing something")
Sorta. Agree that's not the sole purpose. Raping your wallet is at least one secondary purpose. Disagree that two electrodes make any difference whatsoever to the operation of the plug and/or behavior of the spark.
Simply because they don't work the way they are marketed to work.
All the sales lit I've seen on these shows multiple sparks coming off the center electrode to the 2 or 4 or whatever grounds there are. This is simply not how they work in the real world. The spark jumps the gap that is the narrowest, and that is it. What happens is the plug will spark a few times on the narrowest gap, which widens this out a bit and when then change to the next narrowest gap and so on. So over time the spark will migrate around. But, it will NEVER all spark at once with all the gaps.
Or how 'bout 'miracle' 100 mpg carburetors, fuel line magnets & the wide variety of assorted snake oils. The number of such scams may be limited, but the supply of idiots to buy them remains infinite.
Because jaded, cynical jerk off pricks like you make it hard to beleive. Your attitude is insulting, he is obviously just wondering why his owners manual recommended you "bogu$, money grubbing plug$" to paraphrase. I personally don't believe you guys, because i have not seen proof in either direction, and i BELIEVE what i see, now what you tell me, you self rightous jerk
If you find it easier to believe brightly-colored packaging claims regurgitated by a gumchewing Taco Bell reject behind the counter of an auto parts store, by all means, go right on doing so.
So how would this result in increased acceleration/engine performance or, as I now imagine might be the case, it doesn't. All it does is make the spark plug last longer, if it does even that.
Yeah, the dealer told me they use NGK too and can sell them to me for $10 each, ouch but the info on your link below has some good info on their benefits, of the multi-electrode plug. Hmm.
I like the look of this ngk plug alot more than the Bosch, which has the tiny center electrode packed with insulator all around it. Of course, there's a price diff but as in all things in life...
Thanks for your helpful comments and have a nice day!
Agreed. I called him back and he didn't seem as sure as he had been and admitted that the spark only travels on path at a time, not to all of them, as he had initially told me!
Aha. Good explanation. I guess I really should go enroll in Physics, eh?
Agreed now.
From NGK's website it says "Multi-ground electrodes improve ignition capabilities and are less sensitive to increased voltage requirements due to gap growth." I guess that's about all they do. So it's up to me to figure out are they worth the big price.
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