Friction and mpg's: NYTimes article

In one sense, I think they are a no-brainer.

The problem is all in the battery. We had perfectly reliable electric cars back in the 1920s, using lead-acid batteries, and they were very popular though mostly with the elderly set for whom the ease of operation was a big deal.

Battery density today is an order of magnitude better than it was in the days of flooded lead-acid stacks, but it's still not up to the point of getting as many watt-hours per cubic foot as gasoline by any means.

Well, you'll note that although the energy density of the batteries have improved tenfold since the 1920s, the energy efficiency of internal combustion engines have improved as well, so there's a constant game of catch-up.

--scott

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Addressing friction in an ICE is relatively easy compared to the problems of batteries. Creating a very fine surface finish is already known it's essentially a manufacturing problem to do it within appropiate cost targets. Batteries on the other hand need to be developed entirely. there are basic problems of energy density, battery life, and so on. And then after all that is worked out the manufacturing processes have to be figured out and the equipment designed and built... all for something that at the current level of technology is still a very big compromise on range and speed.

None of this harms do it yourself. Most of what is here shouldn't ever need to be done by a do it yourselfer with modern lubricants. Even it were all but a tiny few would send out the parts for machining or purchase new ones. Essentially backyard cylinder honing may be a thing of the past technology but not much more than that.

That, and an addiction to power. A car with under 100 hp seems absolutely slothful -- even loathsome -- when VW beetles (and buses) never had more than 42 hp, for *decades*.

Four 10 hp hub motors (or axle motors) in an EV would make for an extraordinarily versatile and efficient car, theoretically not even needing a steering linkage. With a decent CdA, some weight trimming, a 40 hp car should be able to more than keep up. After all, the VWs did....

Part of the problem is weight. The new Scion iQ (a review is also in that NYTimes section) is not much bigger than the SmartCar, and weighs in at

2,100 lbs!! WTF????

MotorTrend or someone had a fascinating article on the weights of cars, from the muscle car era on up, and if memory serves, cars have actually gotten heavier!!! Ostensibly from all this pc-safety bullshit. Hard to fathom, but there it is. The Datsun 510, B210 cars came in at just about 2,000 lbs, as did the old beetle. The 2012 Beetle comes in at 3,000 lbs. Holy shit....

And, I don't believe mpg's have improved much. Datsun 510s, B210s were getting 40 mpg in 1970. And forty years later?

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Mostly because there is no more diy -- some municipalities require a work permit just to wallpaper/paint your house, change a sink, or change a water heater.

"Just another nail", in a DIY coffin that for all intents and purposes is

*welded* shut -- you cain't even adjust the idle speed anymore. Highly symbolic, imo. Orwellian, even. Mebbe we should be protesting fixable cars, as well.

That, and an addiction to power. A car with under 100 hp seems absolutely slothful -- even loathsome -- when VW beetles (and buses) never had more than 42 hp, for *decades*.

Four 10 hp hub motors (or axle motors) in an EV would make for an extraordinarily versatile and efficient car, theoretically not even needing a steering linkage. With a decent CdA, some weight trimming, a 40 hp car should be able to more than keep up. After all, the VWs did....

Part of the problem is weight. The new Scion iQ (a review is also in that NYTimes section) is not much bigger than the SmartCar, and weighs in at

2,100 lbs!! WTF????

The Datsun 510, B210 cars came in at just about 2,000 lbs (*much* larger, roomier than the Scion), as did the old beetle. The 2012 Beetle comes in at

3,000 lbs -- a full THOUSAND pounds heavier, despite new alloys, beam designs, etc. Holy shit....

MotorTrend or someone had a fascinating article on the weights of cars, from the muscle car era on up, confirming in general that cars have actually gotten heavier. Ostensibly from all this pc-safety bullshit. Hard to fathom, but there it is.

And, I don't believe mpg's have improved much. Datsun 510s, B210s were getting 40 mpg in 1970. And forty years later?

An original VW beetle would never pass today's safety requirements.

The government regulators demand weight on one side and fuel economy on the other. Such is the way of centrally managed economies by the political process.

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Again, that's a problem of all powerful government. Power and money for themselves and their friends with a gullible population that thinks its for their own good.

But anyway, what is DIY in these technologies are things that people typically farm out because for them to be done right has required the right equipment for decades.

I have owned three VWs before.A 1961 VW van and a 1963 VW beetle and a

1970 VW van.Top speed with my 1963 VW beetle on a level highway/Interstate was 75 miles per hour.I have also owned a 1957 BMW Isetta car before, top speed was about 45 miles per hour.You freeze to death in the wintertime in those vehicles.I am Glad I got rid of them.They are Death traps too. cuhulin

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sodium cooled exhaust valves are ancient - they were used in the 1930's in airplane engines, and some high end race car engines. they've been used intermittently ever since, but in most cases are largely obsoleted by heat resistant nickel alloys.

the sodium is sealed into the stem of the valve. it's not exposed to air or water unless you cut the valve open. and if you've ever tried to cut a valve open, you'll understand why disposal really isn't an issue.

electrics are far from being a no-brainer. as s.d. points out, i.c. engines have become considerably more efficient, particularly diesels, so there is no "big picture" leadership from an electric solution. yes, an efficient power station has high thermodynamic efficiency, but by the time you've wasted heat charging a battery, and wasted it again discharging it, the thermodynamic advantage has become slim to zero. add to that the fact that you don't have range or quick recharge times, and electrics become infeasible for anyone that doesn't have a strict commute/shopping-only vehicle usage regime.

that's changing. in my neck of the woods, huge numbers of the folk living at the edges of the "two hour belt" are foreclosed and the properties vacant. much smarter to rent closer to where you work.

I used to have an Alfa with valves as you describe. The idea behind that was to increase heat flow from the valve face. Beats me it that really worked. It does sound like it could be a litttle dangerous when it comes time to recycle the metal.

I've never really lived very far from work even when I wasn't living on a rock. I did used to work with a guy that had a 5 hour commute. How much do you have to pay a guy to make such a drive worth it?

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I was under the impression that battery charging was a pretty efficient process. But now that you mention it, I remember really being "into" charging lead acid batteries, and to fast charge them, you needed to immerse them in a water bath!!!

Also, dynamite has nothing over a charging car battery that decides to explode.... holy shit..... I never did find ANY of the pieces, with clothes that were in acid-tatters by the morning.

And, indeed, Tesla's batteries are, I think, water cooled -- holy shit, so indeed, there may be substantial inefficiencies. Do you have numbers or cites for these losses?

The Leaf article cited some very fast charge times (at 480 V), but fast always = inefficient, in thermo. Not to mention shortening battery life.

Recently there was an article on whether the unemployment thing was lessening traffic jams, etc. It is in almost every state. This is not the recent article, but discusses the point.

A bit of thin silver lining....

I thought it was over 80 mph, but certainly with a better CdA and low weight

80-90 mph would not be a problem today.

Did yours have the washer fluid pressurized by the spare tire?? Incredible..... economization gone a little too far, imo...

Also, with four 10 hp electric motors, altho top speed won't make any record books, acceleration should be right up there.

I have also owned a 1957 BMW

Air cooled engines, at least on the VWs. Otoh, swap time for a beetle motor was about, what, 15 min? And I don't think you needed a hoist.... LOL

it works. latent heat of fusion, then convection.

remember the science classes at school where you melted an ice cube? you started with a block of ice at some sub-freezing temp. then, as you heated it, it's temperature rose to melting point. then there was a temperature plateau as you poured more and more heat energy into the thing, but the temp didn't rise. this was where the heat energy was melting the ice, and the energy was going into the "latent heat of fusion" thing. finally, after the ice had melted, the temperature started to rise again.

sodium has a much lower melting point than steel, and a relatively high heat capacity. thus you can heat a valve to the sodium fusion point and it'll stay at or closer to that temperature than it would do without it

- after the sodium has melted [fused] convection currents carry heat from the hot valve head to the cold stem, and thus to the guide and away.

if you make a valve from a metal better able to run hot without softening, then you don't need to sodium cool. if the engine runs hot and exit temps exceed that of an economic higher temp alloy, then you consider sodium again. but it's not common these days because high temps mean high NOx emissions so you avoid the high temps in the first place.

not really. you don't cut valves open and dump them in water, you melt them hot along with all the rest of the broken up engine bits. and you take lots of precautions /not/ to get moisture into a furnace because it causes explosions, regardless of whether there's any sodium in there.

I used to have an Alfa with valves as you describe. The idea behind that was to increase heat flow from the valve face. Beats me it that really worked. It does sound like it could be a litttle dangerous when it comes time to recycle the metal.

I've never really lived very far from work even when I wasn't living on a rock. I did used to work with a guy that had a 5 hour commute. How much do you have to pay a guy to make such a drive worth it? =====================================================

If he was actually driving, this would be a dangerous proposition.

Most people with those kinds of commutes take transportation, and use that time as part of their sleep cycle.

60 min or somesuch did a piece on this, in CA, some years ago.

Prison would have some distinct advantages over this lifestyle -- no rent, cooked food, and a, uh, very short commute.... I myself am thinking of retiring in prison, have my pension check sent directly to the commissary....

I wonder if I can find a directory of prisons, with cell-size, programs, shop facilities (cnc, mebbe??), menus, etc.... You know, like camp brochures..... I'd like the corner cell, please, with the *two* windows....

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To tell you the truth, he said it took it 3 hours one way. I shortened it a little because the idea of spending 6 hours commuting just seems insane. He had a Pinto hatchback as I recall.

I don't care much for commuting. It used to take me about 35 minutes to get to work but I've arranged it so that my work is about 1.5 miles. My wife's work is about a mile from here. It's all good.

The way I see it, most folks end up their lives in a prison of some sorts these days. My mother-in-law has to be totally taken care of these days. Gee, that's depressing...

My point was the the end of a valve stem does not make a very good heat exchanger.

it may not be "good", but it's the next best after the valve seat. next stop are the retainer collets, the cap and the spring...