I Hate Wheel Alignment

So don't get one unless you need one based on tire wear or have replaced a steering part such as a tie rod that would likely alter alignment. Also a good idea to get it checked when you have to strain your arms to drive straight down the road.

It's that way with a lot of repair work. Ever get a call from the mechanic saying the pads are down below minimum? I take repeat business to people I'm comfortable with.

Until you find someone you are comfortable with any mechanical repair is a bit of a crapshoot. That's why it doesn't pay to continually shop around for the cheapest price.

Yes, and driving with the wheels out of alignment and out of balance can be a great muscle builder too.

I enjoy driving a car that is well maintained and runs properly. This past year I was able to squeeze 60,000 miles from a set of low profile

Well, I disagree on a few points.

First, if alignment is needed you sure as hell CAN tell, and you CAN tell when its done right. A good alignment can change the driving character of a car from night to day.

Second, a little bit of study renders the numbers no longer "esoteric." Its engineering, not art. There are no opinions, no gray areas, no accounting for taste (well, not entirely true- you can set alignment parameters like camber and caster aggressively for handling, or more optimally for tire wear, but let's just stick to factory specs here). Its either right or wrong. Now if the frame is tweaked, it may have to stay "wrong" but a competent alignment shop can minimize any error as much as possible and in many cases make the car drive well enough that you'd probably never notice it.

Thirdly, it DOES last. It takes a lot more than a pothole or curb to knock the alignment out on a well-made car. On all the cars I've owned, I've rarely needed an alignment more often than once every 75,000 miles or even more. Now, its true that most of my cars are "trucks" by modern standards (rear-drive American iron from the 60s and 70s). But my wife's little front-drive 93 Intrepid holds its alignment as well as any of the old cars, if not even a little better... that is until the problematic tie rod bushings on its Saginaw steering rack wear out, but the cool thing is that replacing them brings it right back into spec. without even having to have it aligned again).

We disagree.

My alignment guy disagrees with you.

I get a printout of the numbers. ALL of values, both before and after are within the range (tolerance) quoted on the printout. When I ask why it needed to be aligned if all the parameters were within tolerance, the answer is, "Yes, but they weren't optimal."

Again, my alignment guy disagrees with you, and he's been in the area for 30+ years and has a sterling reputation.

-- jim

As someone who would get paid on alignments you look at the numbers to see if it is a sell. IE a car with the total toe within specs but the wheel offcenter (would drive me nuts) isn't going to hurt the tires but isn't optimal. An average shop gets 6-8 tenths for an alignment check and anywhere from 1.0-2.0 hours to "do" an alignment. So the techs DO look to do anything to upgrade the check to an alignment. Firestone has an "lifetime" alignment and like an extended warranty used properly is a great tool; but be a contentious shopper when getting one performed.

I can understand your frustration. You buy a new set of tires, get the vehicle aligned, and then dont get the results you hoped, and payed, for.

Not every establishment that has an alignment bay has people qualified to use it. Tires can be problematic, even when new and right off the rack.

If you cant get satisfaction from the people who sold you the tires and the alignment, go somewhere else (hopefully finding an establishment good at what they do).

My daughter once took her car to Sears in Houston, who charged her a service fee and then told her that her car couldnt be aligned. They said it would have to go to a frame shop to be bent back into alignment.

I took it to a quality frame shop, which aligned it quickly and properly WITHOUT any bending. The second shop said the first just didnt know what they were doing.

And I'm left to wonder why.

That would probably explain why you "can't tell" that an alignment did any good. You didn't NEED one to start with.

Then he's just wrong. See above- if you really need an alignment, you CAN tell.

I'm getting real confused here. You start off by ranting and raving about wheel alignment practices of some recent service then leap to the defense of the same guy you have apparently been patronizing for years.

jim evans wrote:

Yeah - I got that. My last alignment check showed a few things that couldn't be adjusted. Big whoop. However - total toe was -0.19=B0 and they didn't adjust that. Another shop looked at the result and said it might be within specs, but somewhere near dead center would be optimal. I'm thinking of bringing it back and insisting on since I had some funky wear on my last set of tires. Maybe how busy they are influences their willingness.

Ask for the final printout, this will show you where your alignment specs are compared to the allowable tolerances and 0 settings.

I got that. I was referring to the values from the printout. Total toe was -0.19° when the factory tolerances were from

-0.25° to 0.25°. I brought the printout to another tire shop that installed my new tires. The owner said that total toe can be a problem even if it's "within tolerances".

Like I was saying - maybe I take it to Firestone on a less than busy day. This shop is open on Sundays and I could just watch football in their waiting area. :-)

As an alighhner -19 is on the edge of being good. I perfere to get it close to optimal specs. I like to give a customer the best I can, even if it costs them. To tell a customer "well you car was almost out of specs but it's good enough for you" could insult them. I perfer to tell them "it was a little out but dead on now" Remember, the Firestone Lifetime alighnment is a good tool; but its priamry goal is to keep you coming into the shop: more chances to sell something like a transmission flush, tires or preventavite maintenance. If they tell you something is bad IE tie rod end, have them show you/ Be an educated consumer.