Tire Rotation Question

Hello,

a. What is the current thinking regarding the number of miles that a passenger car (with all-season tires) should accumulate between tire rotations ?

b. Is it necessary to have the wheels balanced, again, at this time ?

c. Curious about the rotation order (front to back, or...?) for asymetric thread tires like the Nokian WR G2 ?

Different rotation order/positions for the normal, symmetric, type of tires ?

Thanks, Bob

Reply to
Bob
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I'd suggest checking the owner's guide that came with your car or the maker of your tires.

From

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: "Regular rotation helps extend the life of your tires, saving time and money in the long run. For rotation, each tire and wheel is removed from your vehicle and moved to a different position. This ensures that all of the tires wear evenly and last longer. If no period is specified in your vehicle owners manual, tires should be rotated every 6,000 to 8,000 miles. If you have a full-size spare, it should be included in the rotation process."

From

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(a referal from Firestone / Bridgestone ): "Tire rotation is vital to achieving even tread wear and long tread life. Rotation is necessary because of the uneven wear characteristics of each wheel position on the vehicle. Rotate tires at the vehicle manufacturers's recommended intervals or at 5,000 - 7,000 miles if not specified."

From

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"Refer to your Vehicle Owners Manual for recommended rotation pattern and interval for your vehicle. It is recommended to rotate your tires every

6,000 to 8,000 miles, or sooner if uneven treadwear begins to appear. The purpose of regular rotation is to achieve more uniform treadwear on all tires on your vehicle. If tires show uneven treadwear, ask the service person to check and/or correct any alignment or other mechanical problems before rotation.

"This is true for both front wheel and rear wheel drive vehicles. Full size spare tires should be included in the rotation pattern for your vehicle. Compact spares (temporary use spares) should not be included in the rotation pattern."

From

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: "While many people are knowledgeable enough to rotate their own tires, the procedure is especially quick and easy for a professional. Your vehicle's owner's manual will specify the proper rotation pattern and schedule for your vehicle. If no specific schedule is indicated, a good rule of thumb is to rotate your tires every 6,000 to 8,000 miles.

From a recent Ford Owner's Manual:

"Tire rotation

"Rotating your tires at the recommended interval (as indicated in the scheduled maintenance information that comes with your vehicle) will help your tires wear more evenly, providing better tire performance and longer tire life. Unless otherwise specified, rotate the tires approximately every

5,000 miles (8,000 km)."

From

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: "How often should my tires be rotated?

"On average, tires should be rotated every 5,000 miles."

For tires I bought at Costco, they said to bring them in for rotation after

7500 miles.

Persoanlly, I try to rotate my tires every 5000 miles. For an AWD car, or asymetric tread tires, I do a straight front to rear and don't include a spare. If I do it at home, I don't worrry about the balance unless there is a vibration after the rotation. For the Costco and Sam's Club tires, they do the balance for free when they do the free rotation.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

Every car I've ever owned addressed this in the owner's manual/ maintenance schedule, except for re-balancing. If the car rides smoothly, don't mess with the balance, it can only get worse.

Reply to
E. Meyer

As has already been posted, check the manual for your car. Toyota has a sequence for rotation and the book claims that the warranty on the tires is void if this is not followed. (Yeah, what warranty?)

It is not always necessary to rebalance the tires, but I have found that this can sometimes be very helpful to return the car to its smoothest ride.

Reply to
hls

since this is all in your owners manual, it's most likely that you're just attention-whoring.

but if you're not, and because i'm sick of seeing other people regurgitate same-old same-old without bothering to think, here are some facts:

  1. tire rotation was "invented" in the days of bias ply. we don't use bias ply any more.
  2. a tire wears to direction of rotation and station on car.

  1. when transferred to a different direction and/or station, the amount of tire/road contact area is reduced.

  2. reduced contact area reduces traction, and thus ability to brake and turn. kinda important in emergencies.

  1. you *cannot* rotate on performance vehicles with directional tires and different tire sizes.

  2. many manufacturers selling in the usa are afraid of lawyers and practice "cya" based on an "industry standard" that will stop them being sued, even though the technical facts contradict.

conclusion, just like some performance vehicle manufacturers have the gonads to say, and like frod say in europe but don't say here, don't rotate your tires. if you're experiencing uneven wear issues, fix the problem with the car, don't lipstick the pig and hope that a tire rotation will cover the evidence.

Reply to
jim beam

I don't know how accurate all the claims in this post are, but I agree with the conclusion - I never rotate tires. Balancing is far more beneficial to tire longevity.

Reply to
Bill Vanek

My Ford manual for my F350 DRW states not to rotate the tires unless they are showing uneven wear. This is in large part due to the different wheels involved (AL front and DRW outer, steel DRW inner and spare) making rotation a dismounting and remounting chore.

Reply to
Pete C.

I dont think it is accurate at all. The manufacturers call for rotation, and I have personally had uneven wear problems that were diagnosed as being caused by lack of rotation.

Reply to
hls

dude, think through that statement and analyze how that can /possibly/ be. rotation as a mask for mechanical issues with the car is fundamentally wrong. wear because of more loading on the front axle of a front wheel drive car is fundamentally right - it's what you should expect to see.

facts still remain, tires rotated away from their wear sense give less traction. less traction means you can't stop or corner as safely. there's no arguing around that. "manufacturer recommended rotation" is just lawyer-speak for "don't sue us if you crash", it's /nothing/ to do with the physical facts - the physical facts observed by the minority manufacturers [like bmw] who dare to state them.

Reply to
jim beam

"jim beam" wrote in message news:DIqdnSFm5dIVuiLRnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@speakeasy.net...

I've been associated with two different vehicles where rotation seems to be necessary - a 1986 VW Jetta and a 2008 Mazda 3. In both cases the rear tires developed strange wear patterns and became very noisy over time if not rotated. For both cars the alignment was checked and rechecked and it was claimed to be within specs. The same problem occured with two different sets (and completely different brands of tires) on the Jetta. The wear patter was really odd, not a worn sholder or excessive wear in the center. Rather it was if you sanded bands across the tire at an angle to the direction of rotation. Hard to see, but if you ran your hand along the circumfrence of the tire you could definitely feel it. For boh the Jetta and the Mazda it only affected the rear tires. The front tires wore perfectly (in both cases). If you didn't rotate the tires, the pattern on the rear tires became very pronounced and the tires roared to annoying degree after 10k miles (more or less). Routine rotation seemed to eliminate the problem (definitely eliminated it for the Jetta - it seems to eliminate it for the Mazda - but we are only 10k miles on the new Mazda tires). My sister ruined two sets of tires before she started rotating the tires ('86 Jetta). My son's first set on the Mazda were ruined. He started routine rotation on the second set and so far so good. I assume it has something to do with the style of driving, rear suspension design and type of roads. Both my Son and Sister are gentle drivers. Both do the majority of their driving on highways. North Carolina uses a lot of rock in the asphalt and most of their driving is on asphalt roads. For me, I've never seen much benefit to tire rotation, but Sam's club does it for free for my car, so I let them. Doesn't seem to hurt anything. Rotation is not free for my truck tires, so I'll probably just leave those tires alone unless I see a wear problem (original tires went 45K and I only replaced them becasue of multiple punctures).

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

that ed, is a carppy tire. pure and simple.

even though radial tires have circumferential bands, they still have bias plies that go through their side walls and under the tread. if those are defective, i.e. they're not anchored correctly to the mounting bead wires, or they're not wound properly, different plies end up at different tensions and the angled tread deformation you describe results. it is possible that a tire that's been run too hot or with excess pressure can develop similar faults, but again, that only occurs on carppy tires. rotating them simply masks the underlying tire flaw - it's not a solution.

"doesn't seem to hurt anything." so apparently that dog you ran over because you couldn't brake as well was inconsequential.

what a folksy little story. shall i tell you a folksy little story about a friend's civic that tracked to the left with their [new sumitomo] tires mounted in one direction, and to the right when the front axle tires were reversed? or should we have kept on rotating until we found a combination where that didn't happen and just let another tire manufacturer off the hook for producing that carp?

mean while, digest this:

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the accompanying text is classic german understatement: "diagram o shows the different braking forces that were achieved with different tires under aquaplaning conditions. the noticeable difference in the performance levels of the tires is striking."

Reply to
jim beam

forgot cite: from the bosch automotive handbook.

Reply to
jim beam

Sorry, but I absolutely agree with the former and have never rotated tires, pistons in cylinders, pushrods, rocker arms or anything else. Establish and maintain the best wheel balance and alignment you can, be vigilant about and replace worn suspension parts and go from there.

Reply to
Portnoy

Do what works for you. I am telling you that I have had tire damage because I didnt rotate reasonably. Tires are too expensive to make that mistake again.

Reply to
hls

if you bought decent tires in the first place, and your vehicle was properly maintained, you wouldn't have to rotate.

Reply to
jim beam

i couldn't agree more. i was going to say brake pads - they can wear unevenly if calipers are not properly maintained. people could just rotate those and not worry about the maintenance. braking would be crap for a while, but they'd soon wear in again, just like car tires.

Reply to
jim beam

If you have a car with a s**te suspension design to begin with, you have to rotate your tires. I believe GM recommends a rotation interval of something between 7K and 10K miles for the newish Impalas; it's in the manual. If you don't follow that recommendation (and sometimes even if you do) it will just chew up the front tires like nobody's business.

I don't know the exact interval because I just request that it be done at every oil change; it's a company car so I get the oil changed every 7K miles. (I pay the shop to upgrade to synthetic, since in the winter sometimes the oil life monitor goes off before I can have the oil changed.)

Personally I think that it is asinine, but I can only ASSume that GM knows what they're talking about in this respect - and by looking at the front tires of other cars in the company parking lot it would seem that the recommendation is actually necessary. I also run my tires about 4 PSI over spec to try to minimize the edge wear on the tires, and also because the car rides like a soggy marshmallow and the front tires bulge visibly and alarmingly at the recommended 30 PSI.

nate

Reply to
N8N
******* I think common sense will tell you that the front tires wear differently from the rear tires. To average out the wear, rotation makes sense.

I am not going on sense, however. I have had the problem when I didnt rotate, and the front tires showed increases wear and became noisy. (These were high quality Michelins, and the front end was not out of line nor worn). Discount Tire reminded me of the need to rotate. And I ended up getting more than 70K miles out of those tires.

Reply to
hls

Well, as others here have said, not rotating cannot *cause* any problems whatsoever. It simply allows the signs of the real problem to show up sooner. Alignment, balance (and not just the wheel/tire combo), steering, suspension, faulty tires, all of those things can be the cause. And there are alignment measurements that are rarely checked, or they are misunderstood.

Look at it this way: If you have a problem that's causing the right front tire to wear funny, and you rotate, you will now have two tires wearing funny. How do you gain anything? Find the problem, fix the problem, and replace the tires as needed. Of course, if it's just bad design, you won't be finding *or* fixing the problem.

Anyway, the single most important thing you can do to extend tire life on newer vehicles is balancing. As the car gets older, you do have to pay attention to alignment and steering/suspension wear or damage.

Reply to
Bill Vanek

Can you conceive of any other wear item that would benefit from being subjected to a different wear pattern? Neither can I. The only advantage I can perceive to roating tires in a well designed and maintained vehicle (and then only front to rear and vice versa) would be in a very little used vehicle where the tires could deteriorate from age alone (e.g., rot or harden) faster than the tread would wear. An example would be a front wheel drive vehicle where the front tires may need to be renewed multiple times before the rear tires would require replacement even once.

Reply to
Portnoy

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