I try stuff so you don't have to

ready for this? when rubber swells, it's usually because some of the cross-linking of all the large springy rubber molecules is starting to come apart. that is essentially the precursor to failure because now it'll deform, and not spring back. not immediately of course, but over time. you've seen oiled saturated radiator hoses slowly swell, then burst over time i'm sure.

now, sometimes rubber can swell because of other chemicals that /don't/ break the cross-linking, rubber conditioners like this are used in a number of applications, including engine oil additives that keep seals working properly. but it's a fine line, and you need to know what you're doing.

anyway, fingers crossed on this. do more homework on the bushings though. honda try to sell you whole new suspension arms, but if you can hunt down the individual part numbers, you can buy the bushings alone. the cost saving is debatable since replacement on some of the components is a REAL pita, but you can buy them. i have to think that toyota, since they buy from the same sources, have similar means. you might also be able to repair a bushing with one of the soft castable urethane compounds. i've done this for experiment purposes, and the results, done carefully, can be quite acceptable.

Very interesting. Is Fluid Film the name brand? Sounds like it might be worth trying on my older cars.

I periodically use spray on engine degreaser to clean off the bottom side of the engine and the suspension parts. One time when I did that I thought it would be a good idea to lube the bushings with silicone to "protect" them from the cleansing effects of the engine degreaser. As soon as I did the silicone spray the vehicle (92 Explorer 4x4) started making terrible groaning noises on every bump from the rubber bushings movements. No amount of additional spraying with silicone would stop the noise. So I redid the degreaser application and rinse and 95% of the noise went away. Seems backwards but that's what happened.

Swollen rubber = deteriorated rubber. No other way.

Well, the stuff I bought worked for a while, but now the bushings are beginning to get back to 'normal' again.

I can't buy just bushings, so what can I do to replace them. The car has

221000 miles on it, not worth $999 for all new suspension parts, which is the only way to get the bushings. But it runs well and the engine is strong, still gets 31 MPG. Would be nice to have a smooth suspension...

so the next question is whether the frame has rust, and how much would it cost to replace the vehicle?

and what about all the urethane suspension kits you can get on ebay?

and napa?

if you have the dimensions, they're pretty good at cross-referencing.

ote:

Poly bushings won't be any quieter without some treatment. As they physically rotate in their shells rather than twist there is a greatly increased possibility of noise.

I've done a couple cars with them and it does make a nice improvement in tightness, but at the cost of ride quality. The first two, I did exactly according to the mfgrs. directions and used the "Gorilla Snot" grease on the control arm bushings after roughing up the bushings to expose the supposedly impregnated graphite in the poly. They both creaked every time you went over a driveway apron, although they did otherwise handle well.

The next vehicle I did, I did not have the option of using "polygraphite" bushings only non-graphited polyurethane. Since following the directions didn't work for me and this vehicle was relatively easy to disassemble (VW Scirocco) I decided to experiement. I bought a tube of powdered graphite and rubbed it into the bushings until they turned a uniform pencil lead color before installing - this was easy as they were molded with red-colored poly. That car was dead quiet for tens of thousands of miles afterward until I sold it, so I would actually recommend using that approach rather than using grease.

The poly is much easier for a DIYer to install, as they don't require a press, bench vise, or improvised all thread/nut/socket/washer setup to press the pushings in, they push in with firm hand pressure. I replaced the control arms on the Scirocco with new making the job even easier as at the time they were about $25 apiece, which was worth it to not have to press the old bushings out and have to derust, straighten, repaint etc. the old control arms - just wave a spray can at them, assemble, install, done.

just my experiences...

nate

did i /say/ anything about "quiet"???

oh look, you have nothing to say.

No, you didn't - but many people would not appreciate the creaking of poly bushings, and I figured Mr. 86 might like to know the pros and cons of poly vs. traditional rubber (if he doesn't already) and possible strategies for mitigating same since you simply recommended them without comment.

Oh, look, you didn't read my post. Hopefully Hachi did, 'cause that was to whom I was really directing it.

nate

The car has very, very little rust. It came from Florida and I oiled it as soon as I got my hands on it, and every other year since. It runs quite well, and if roads are smooth as glass it's a joy to drive.

The biggest issue is that I stopped changing the oil. I don't have to.

I have to add a quart every three days. It's not burning it (except for a small amount of valve seal blow-by on starting) and it's not leaking. I have rel=paced the valve cover gasket and that slowed it down. I'm thinking oil pan gasket...

The only other somewhat problem is the R-12 AC isn;t working.

Knew I shoulda bought that 60LB can for $80 when I had the chance!

Thanks for this. I have a complete set of polyurethane bushings for the Supra and have to do the HG before I get them in. I got a complete set for the cost of one control arm (you can't get the bushings for the front lower control arms...you have to buy the whole thing...)

No, he didn't. Rubber bushings were only available from Toyota at a very high price. Polys weren't a lot easier to find for this year (88) but I was able to order them through AutoZone for 1/4 the price of OEM bushings.

But I didn't realize about the squeaking. I can't STAND a car that squeaks, for ANY reason, so I will try rubbing the bushings with graphite before installing them.

Yes, he did. Thanks.

if it's not burning and it's not leaking, you really have something amazing - you should drive it over to fermi-lab p.d.q. - you might have a black hole or a spacetime wormhole going on!

I

you used to be able to, at considerable expense, buy "recycled" r12. check into whether you still can. but i'm sure that it'll be even more expensive today. conversion to 134 isn't that expensive. especially not if you do it yourself. the money you save on diy should more than pay for a vacuum pump.

polyurethane squeak. if the bushings you're getting are rubber, you won't need to worry about it.

graphite might work, but i'd use silicone. dow molykote 44 [or 33?] works very well.

It (graphite) does; I don't know how much is actually required but I liberally applied it so that the moving surface of the bushing turned from red (color of the material) to a uniform "lead" pencil color. I had it, it was inexpensive, and if it *didn't* work removing the control arms on the subject car was a 30 minute job, so I had nothing to lose by the experiment. I didn't have to take it apart ever again though - I drove the snot out of that car for years afterward in all kinds of weather with nary a creak.

Haven't tried Molykote, but whatever grease PST shipped with their bushing kits back in the day (circa 1997ish) didn't work worth a rodent's rosy red. Everything tightened up nicely and in normal driving you wouldn't notice anything unusual, but I did cuss a little under my breath going over speed bumps and driveway aprons.

nate

That's what I was thinking. Just change it over.

Thanks, both for the suggestions.

As of right now, I need to do the head gasket. And mice got in it, and I cannot get the smell out. :( I have half the interior out, and was going to at some point take the whole interior out and do what little rust work has to be done. So, I'm halfway there...

The suspension will wiat for a while, I guess.