iso-butane conversion from r-12 for 69 camaro

I'm interested in converting the existing AC in my 1969 camaro to an iso-butane system. Can someone who has done this to any r-12 system give me some pointers on what equipment I will need to change out, and where to buy some of the materials? I found a fuel cannister made by MSR which looks to be a good source for the refrigerant:

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but would definately liketo get a second opinion on that as well. Should I change the expansionvalve to an r-134 from the current one? After the systems has beenvacuumed down and I start adding refrigerant, how do you determine howmuch to add and when to stop? If anyone has suggestions on how to tapthe MSR cannisters or modify an existing fill kit that would be helpfulas well. Last but not least does this conversion pose any danger tothe existing system? What I mean by this is does changing therefrigerant cause the existing seals to deteriorate due to the changeitself?

Regards,

-Inet

Reply to
inetquestion
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Can't help you much, although I do know that isobutane is explosive and that the factory system was not meant to carry flammable refrigerant. Is there a particular reason you don't want to stay with R12 / R134a?

Reply to
Masospaghetti

Stupid, dangerous and illegal. What are you trying to do, get yourself set up for a little insurance fraud?

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

If you don't understand the science behind something, don't be so quick to shoot it down. Remember you drive on 15 gallons of gasoline everyday.

-Inet

Reply to
inetquestion

What country are you going to do this in?

Reply to
aarcuda69062

I understand the science a great deal better than you obviously do (don't)

-- even disregarding the illegality and danger of what you propose, there were *numerous* errors of understanding in your original post. Everything from the specific source and specific fluid you plan to charge your system with, to the procedure you plan to use.

Sure, in a system designed and intended to hold and transport flammable liquid and vapors. The A/C system is designed for use with NONflammable refrigerant.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Shhhhhh.. Darwin is at work here.

Reply to
James C. Reeves

Good point. Inet, forget everything I said. You're exactly right. Go charge up your A/C system with campstove gas.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

propane is used as a refrigerant in many systems everyday, this isn't something I pulled out of thin air. Granted it is not legal to produce and sell in an automobile in the US as it isn't "legal" in that sense. However it is not illegal to modify your own equipment in this fashion for your own use.

Getting back to my original question, it was that a question so I do not propose to have all the answers in a single post which you happen to have read. In fact some AC systems are designed to run off propane because it can reach much cooler temperatures than r-22/r-12/r-134. If you dont know the answers to my quesitons, then dont reply. All this blab about building a bomb, illegality, etc... is in fact coming from non reputable sources.

Reply to
inetquestion

Why? because its possible. Two friends of mine did their ME senior design projects on alternative refrigerants several years ago and I always thought it was fascinating. I completely understand why this isn't widespread in the US, but it has been used in mass production in other countries for years. I'm not saying its a good or bad idea, but its no different than the FDA saying something is bad for you in the US when other countries say its OK. I want to see if in fact it is a viable option, and can be done at a fraction of the cost of the other alternatives. What I really was hoping for was responses from people who have actually converted automobible systems using this technique. I'm not interested in debating the legality of it or arguing with nay-sayers. I just want info from someone who has experience in this area.

Reply to
inetquestion

Make, model, engine size(s) and year(s) it was used please.

Gonna drive it up and down the driveway are ya?

Here's a non trick question; Water freezes at what temperature?

I would consider someone asking 'how to' questions to be a "non reputable source."

Reply to
aarcuda69062

So is inhaling cocaine.

Well, there you go then, looks like they beat you to it.

Obviously you don't.

Mayflower Movers is having a sale this week.

Thalidomide was a big hit in England. What's remarkable is that either one will leave you with stubby little flippers for hands.

Well, since it hasn't been demonstrated to be a safe alternative, it's not in fact a viable option.

HC refrigerants are selling for about $5.00 a can, R-134a is selling for $8.00 a can. No fraction there.

Any scofflaws or people just a dying to meet unca Chuck in the group?

So, where did your two ME friends run off to then?

Reply to
aarcuda69062

There is a signpost at the end of your street. why dont you go argue with it?

Reply to
inetquestion

produce

Yes it is illegal.

The Clean Air Act only granted EPA the authority to regulate the use of alternative refrigerants, not the sale of them. Even if EPA determines that an alternative refrigerant is unacceptable, it is still legal to sell it. However, putting it in a customer's A/C system is considered use, not sale, so a service technician who charges a system with an unacceptable refrigerant may be subject to a $25,000 fine and up to five years' jail time.

There is no do-it-yourselfer (DIY) exemption from SNAP requirements. Both service technicians and DlYers who use alternatives found unacceptable under SNAP, or ignore use conditions, have violated the Clean Air Act.

It is not Illegal for people to produce and sell the hydrocarbon blends, However it is illegal to USE them in a vehicle A/C system in the US.

  1. May hydrocarbon refrigerants be used to replace CFC-12, commonly referred to as "Freon® ," in cars? No. It is illegal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants like HC-12a® and DURACOOL 12a® as substitutes for CFC-12 in automobile or truck air conditioning under any circumstances.

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Reply to
Steve W.

produce

Reply to
Steve W.

Your village called. They said they miss their idiot and would like us to send you home now.

Reply to
Don Bruder

This is Usenet. You ask your questions and you get what you get.

Reply to
NapalmHeart

The only one arguing here is you, the rest of us are stating facts.

Learn the difference.

Reply to
aarcuda69062

Oh come on, aarcuda, that's 5/8! 5/8 the price of R134a, man!

Toyota MDT in MO, Director, Council of Misrepresented Fractional Amounts

Reply to
Comboverfish

But the gasoline is NOT circulating through a pressurized heat exchanger sitting 1 inch behind the front bumper of the car...

Nor is it circulating through a heat exchanger INSIDE the passenger compartment.

Reply to
Steve

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