6V to 12 conversion q.

a neighbor with a '60 bug asked me how difficult it is to go 12 volt. I thought the starter was the worst of it. tho you can spin a 6v starter with 12volt. isn't it easier to rebush the
tranny and find a bendix that fits the ring gear? where can one get this? TIA g
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"Jorge" wrote in message

I converted an, I think, '64 bug from 6V to 12V back in the '70's. But in my case it was because I put in the motor from a late '70's bug, 12V alternator rather than 6V generator, that had been in a front end collision. I got them to throw in the starter. Ground out the transmission housing a bit to let the flywheel fit. Starter bolted right in. Had to replace all the light bulbs, not forgetting the dash board lights. And had to put a piece of plywood on top of the battery because the 12V one was just a bit too tall and if someone heavy enough sat on that side of the back seat it would short out.
Not your situation, though.
Before I talked them into giving me the starter, I looked into replacing the gear on the starter with the right one for the new engine. That would be a 6V Starter with a 12V starter gear. It turned out the starter rebuild shop could do the job for a reasonable price. I expect you could do it the other way around too.
I have to wonder if your bigger problem isn't going to be a 12V generator.
- Bill
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x2 :)
Something I always wanted to do was re-wind/re-wire a 6v generator to make enough voltage to charge a 12v battery.
The original idea was for dune buggies.
Too much load for that little thing? Answer: Reduce the load. ;)
Throw that st00pid #$%in' radio out first thing. Make your VW engine run good and listen to it. ;)
I never liked running a dune buggy at night, YMMV?
Alvin in AZ
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wrote in message

To each his own, I guess. Winding motors/generators isn't something I'd be thinking of a fun to do.

Well, if it's dune buggies it seems lighting would be the big issue (yes, I know you address that later). If you want it to be street legal you need at least the standard VW complement of lights. If you want to use it off road at night, you pretty much need a lot more than standard.

My recollection was that I could run a radio (regular radio, not a "sound system") all day and still start it. Headlights would drain the battery in a few hours.

Yes. I'd be afraid of getting out somewhere and it going dark and not being able to get back.
- Bill
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Yeah but, Bill! ;) ...I'm easily entertained! xD
I've always liked ramva, for example. ;)

Friggin' arguing against myself here... LOL :)
Bosch etc didn't make the 12v generator bigger just for the fun of it. ;) They re-wired the 6v generator for 12v use and tried it out. They made the 12v bigger knowing the heat generated and the future demands VW was going to put on it?
Betcha it was something like that. ;)
But always-wanted-to for dune buggies and maybe my '67 bug, anyway.
Little fan shroud, little generator, 88mm slip-ins... <shrug>
Alvin in AZ is a tinkering fool and never had any trouble with 88's.
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((..not replying to anyone in particular..))
When they are popular, I wanted a dune buggy. And considered converting my bug into a buggy, but needed it as my daily driver. And, besides, I didn't want to use a swing axle rear suspension for a buggy. Anyway, I never did it.
I had a '64, 1.2L, 40HP, 6 volt bug. I put very large wheels and tires on the back, installed air-shocks in the back, and replaced the engine with a 1.6L 65 or 70HP engine from a late 70's era beetle. Had to grind out the transmission housing to clear the pinion wheel on the clutch. The car was very quick and handled very well after all that.
- Bill
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The trick was to use the swing axle actually but put an old Bus-axle in it. It wouldn't want to wheelie when climbing a hill setup like a Bug-axle will.
I could climb steep old cattle trails with a 40hp the other guys with their powerful engines couldn't touch even with a fast head start. It's rough and rocky around here and they'd have to slow down at some point and that's when their Bug-axled dune buggy showed its main flaw.
They'd get to a really steep spot and need to gas-it-a-little and their Bug-axled-buggies would lift the nose so high, looked like it was going to flip over backwards.
My second dune buggy just had a Bug-axle, never found a cheap enough Bus-axle to put in it. :/ But sliding it around using the turning brakes was better with that one tho. xD

Are you talking about cutting the clutch housing out so the 12v flywheel and ring gear would fit?
If so, BTDT. :)
Had the kids help me sweep up the shavings and piled 'em up and set 'em on fire too. LOL :)
Alvin in AZ
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wrote in message

Those were the ones with the reduction gears at the wheel end of the axles?

Yes, but it wasn't cutting out the entire housing. There are the four places the engine/transmission mounting bolts go through. At those points the inside of the bell housing swells towards the drive shaft by (if memory serves) about an inch. I ground down those four points by about a quarter of an inch each to clear the 65HP / 12v engine's flywheel. Maybe earlier transmissions, or later engines, would have require more grinding. It was mostly tedious. Put the engine in, turn it (or try to) with the crank, pull it back out, see where they bound up, and do it again. I'd been cautioned by the a VW mechanic who took interest in the project to grind away the minimum possible. I think we test fit it four or five times until it finally would spin without hitting anything.

Yes.

I just vacuumed them out.
- Bill
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Yes and you had to put the ring on the opposite side of the pinion if you were converting a Bug transmission + differential to Bus.
^^that's the key to the whole thing, see it? :D

Yeah, that was the case with mine, a little bit all the way around and more at the four bolt/stud holes.

LOL! :) ...not on a dune buggy it wasn't. ;)

...then pull it right back out again and take a look. ;)
Set the engine on an old metal milk-basket out of the way. xD

Same here. :)

That would have been kind of "exiting" if the magnesium shavings would've caught fire inside your vacuum cleaner. ;)
Wow, forgot all about this tool I made, it's shining moment was prob'ly that clutch bellhousing... :)
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/burr-motor.jpg
It sounds like a vacuum cleaner when it's running (~7500rpm).
Alvin in AZ
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wrote in message wrote:

Yes. But, in my case, (1) this was a street car (2) I wasn't that mechanically adept and (3) it never occurred to me.

It's *possible* I'm forgetting having to grind anywhere else. This was decades ago.

I imagine that would make it easier. Still, several of us owned more or less contemporary bugs and we'd gotten to where we could get an engine out or back in in minutes.

Oh, we just left it on the piece of plywood on the floor jack. The guy holding the light held onto the engine with his other hand so it wouldn't fall off. And we had the car parked with the back tires on cinder blocks, which got it to a convenient height to slip the engine under the body at the back.

The mechanic talked as if it wasn't all *that* unusual, but to this day, I've never encountered anyone else who actually did it.

Exciting? I suppose so. I don't recall being aware that the transmission housing was made of (with?) magnesium. Well, maybe "exiting" is the right word too. I imagine we'd have been out of that garage pretty damn fast if that had happened.

Seems handy. We just used an electric drill with a grinding wheel in it.

I imagine. What's the motor from? I can see "BARTLETT EQUIPMENT CO." on it, but can't read anything else.
- Bill
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Drag that baby outta the garage spray water on it the Mg takes the oxygen away from the H2 as if you were puring liquid oxygen on the fire. See? ;) Exciting. LOL :)

Yeah, since it ain't-aluminum, it prob'ly cut pretty good. :)

It sez something like "brake relining" on it. ?? Either used to clean the steel shoes or cut the drums?? I just got the motor from a yard sale really cheap cause the front ball bearing was noisy. :)
-----------------
Engine cases are magnesium too. xD
Alvin in AZ
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On 5/7/2013 11:24 PM, snipped-for-privacy@Example.com wrote:

I sort of prefer a 6V starter with 12v. It turns REALLY FAST so the car starts instantly. Can't sit and crank it a lot though. Make sure the bushing is in good shape cause it could chew up the flywheel.
For some reason my engine constantly forced the upper pulley to dig into the face of the 12v generator or alternator. Not sure why. It would auger out the back of the puly where it meets the stop. Always made sure it was tight, etc. KWW
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I know the stand is different. on the starter bushing. I believe there is a difference and someone makes a thin one to fit the bell housing and the starter end.
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On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 8:29:37 AM UTC-7, Jorge wrote:

Been running the original 1958 6v starter in alfie for over 10 years since his conversion to 12v, with no issues.. In my 54 I did the same thing, and sold the car after 15 years.. The car spins and starts instantly!
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