lubing wheel lug nuts, does the lube kind really matters?

think about it guy - why do you NOT want a liquid lube on anything that might fling onto a braking surface? this is not a trick question.

Don't use lube. Use anti-seize. It's not a lube.

--scott

I never lube wheel lug nuts. I use a good 4 way wrench and I carry a 4 feet long cheater pipe in case I need it.

And derate the torque accordingly if you do (~20%?)

IME however using the anti-seize on the lug bolts is irrelevant if you properly torque them and also are using two sets of wheels (summer/winter) as you'll have the wheels off before the threads seize up. However you might live somewhere where corrosion is more prevalent than where I live so it might be advisable in your case, only you can determine that. What *is* important is putting a little anti-seize or heavy grease on the protrusion of the hub, as the wheels can seize to the hub in that same time period. I've seen it both on alloy and steel wheels.

As another poster pointed out, getting any kind of lube on the brakes is a bad thing, so whatever you use, only put it where it needs to be. And in no circumstances put any on the tapered portion of the lug seat as friction there is essential to keep the lugs from loosening.

nate

OT here... Scott's comment brings up something interesting I came across recently.

The GM tools division, Kent-Moore, sells (to dealers, mostly) all sorts of specialty pullers etc, that come with a small tube of "high pressure lubricant" for the threads on the forcing screw of the tool.

Curious about that "high pressure lubricant" one rainy day, I researched for some MSDS on some part numbers....and the sheet I found said the stuff is anti-seize.

"Fascinating" - Lt. Cmdr. Spock GW

Well, rear wheels seems like a good playground since they contribute little to the braking. I guess I'll either use antiseize or keep using nothing on the threads and the cheater's bar for undoing them

antiseize is fine - it doesn't fling unless you use far too much. it's used universally in the rust belt with none of the worry-warting with which others seem to be afflicted*.

• stick with factory spec torque - new fasteners are all lubed as part of production/storage, so when they get assembled to spec., they snug up good and tight. but with use, they dry out and the metal galls. if you try to torque them "dry", the result is typically below spec because it's hung up and tripped the wrench before it's actually got where it needs to be.

"high pressure" is usually something containing molybdenum disulfide.

Just to clarify, Kent-Moore isn't owned by GM, it's actually owned by Bosch who recently acquired SPX. They also don't make tools only for GM, they've made tools for various American brands in the past (e.g. most if not all of the Studebaker "J-tools" referenced in the shop manuals were made by Kent-Moore.) It appears today that they primarily do make GM tools but also still heavy truck brands as well.

nate

"Just to clarify" as you say. Bosch didn't acquire SPX. SPX Corp is fffing huge.

SPX Corp sold "SPX Service Solutions" to Bosch.

funny that you'd mention that: I was wrestling with the washing machine hose nut (securing the hose to the machine) over the weekend to no avail. The rubber grommet is a tad bit too wide and I was not able to torque the nut on with my bare hands even halfway, let alone all the way ;-)

How effective is antiseize on preventing the wheels seizing on the wheel hub over the winter? Tire shop was hammering the left rear winter wheel off the A4 back in april, when summer wheels went on the car.

It works. It's always good for anything that can rust on. Won't last forever, but it's about 100% better than nothing. I've used it on wheel lugs and hubs for years. Before anti-seize was always in my toolkit I wire-brushed and used motor oil on lug threads. That worked too. You just don't want to use so much that it gets flung off. And if you're concerned about it affecting lug nut torque measurement, that's insignificant - but only if you just anti-sieze the threads, not the bottom of the nut. Basically use "common sense." Hard to define that sometimes. I've only used anti-seize on threads because I just never even thought about using it on nut bottoms. Whether that's "common sense" or "luck" I don't know. This might interest you, or not.

yes. rub a *thin* layer either onto the disk/hub face, or the inside of the wheel where it touches. [the latter is better imo.]

where others say to not antiseize the lug nut head, i disagree - that is a location for galling just like the threads and once galled, you'll not get proper wheel torque. and because it's a sliding location, any plating/factory lube is quickly torn off. when rust gets in, you'll have seizure just as before, and post rust, an even worse friction surface and more torque control issues.

never let them do that - it'll brinnel the bearings and cost you both money and inconvenience when it quickly needs to be replaced. if a wheel is stuck, loosen the lug nuts then drive and brake. if it's a rear, drive backwards and brake. that'll loosen a wheel every time, without expensive collateral damage.

I was leaning onto lubing the wheel since I can prolly do that before I go for the wheel swap appointment in fall rather than on the spot.

what does brinnel mean?

Thank you Jim. You keep saving me money ever since that manual tranny rebuild that did not happen ;)

I wonder if I should ever go that shop again after this hammering incident.

I don't remember if a leaking strut was discovered in that exact corner of the car where the wheel was hammered off before or after the hammering. Hmm.

my bad on spelling- i really should know better! it's "brinell"

the brinell hardness test is where a ball bearing is pressed into the subject material and the size of indent caused correlates to the hardness of the material. when a bearing is "brinelled", impact/overload has caused the bearing rollers/balls to indent the races. serious brinelling is apparent immediately with noise. more minor brinelling only becomes apparent later when the bearing starts to spall and fail.

if you're lucky, the wheel came off before they had to hammer too hard and the bearing's ok. but hammering a bearing is a huge no-no because of the damage potential so you either need to "enlighten" the shop accordingly, or simply avoid them in the future.

shops get into bad habits because they want to get stuff done quickly and rarely connect the dots between what they've done and the subsequent failure - afterall, once the vehicle is out of their shop, who knows what you've done to it? but the fact remains, you should never hammer wheels because of potential for bearing damage.

most of the big bearing houses have some kind of diagnosis and best practice info online. anyone working with/around bearings should take the time to read it.

doubtful connection - unless the wheel was off the ground, the damper was bottomed, and the hammering was oriented to cause knocking at the damper's internal stops.

I can buy the nut surface distorting torque reading. You can decide which has the worse effect, anti-seizing or no anti-seizing. I posted a link that has info on that. But seizure there doesn't pass the "common sense" test. No way any rust there will provide any resistance not EASILY overcome with the wrench. Personally, all the wheel nut head bearing surfaces I've seen have been smooth and shiny, with no significant galling. But that's just me.

in many states, a lot of cars don't have significant rust, and they indeed aren't a problem. but i recently worked on a car that had been extensively salted, and the chromed nut faces were quite badly undermined, and the wheel rim holes were rusty too. without antiseize, torque was extremely inconsistent. this is why i was reminded to mention it after you'd brought it up.

It's not a perfect solution, but it does help.

The first time I removed the wheels from my car after I purchased it (only serviced at the dealer prior to my ownership; official published repair procedures mandate no lube/anti-seize on hub protrusion - I deviate from those recommendations because I'm not aware of any real danger of using something on the protrusion only, and all that hammering can't be good for the wheel bearings) it required a chunk of 2x4 and a 5 lb. hammer to get each wheel off - every one was seized.

After cleaning everything up and using anti-seize, one time I did need to kick the tires to break the wheels loose, but that's still a lot less destructive. Most of the time it's only a couple months before I have some occasion to take one or more wheels off, and in those instances I have had no issues.

Whether anti-seize or grease is more effective in this application, I do not know. I would recommend using one or the other but I haven't had the opportunity e.g. to have two similar enough cars with similar usage patterns in my care at the same time to do a really valid comparison.

I'd recommend using *something*; whether anti-seize or grease. I tend to use anti-seize just because I usually don't have grease handy when working on the car because there aren't any greaseable joints in the suspension, but there's a little tiny pot of anti-seize in my toolbox. However if the grease were closer, I'd probably use that.

nate