Opinion Poll: Which Engine is the Easiest to Repair?

Though not strictly a car engine (they will go into pickups and Blazer/Ramcharger types) the "Screamin' Jimmy" two cycle Detroit Diesel has a lot to recommend it. Mechanical versions are that, wholly mechanical, no electrics needed to run. they are fundamentally simple and do not have the high pressure pumps, lines, and other external paraphernalia that scares a lot of people off diesels. Almost all do not even have glow plugs or intake heater systems.

They are loud, very heavy, and by modern diesel standards a little thirsty. And they do require some special tooling. But I guarantee you will never have ignition, carb or intake valve problems!

Brand loyalists will note they were developed by GM, used heavily by Ford, and now a part of DaimlerChrysler.

Reply to
Bret Ludwig
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I want to work on a 225. When I see a busted 198 or 170, I want to rip it out and drop in a 225. Therefore a 225 is easier for me to work on. :)

nate

Reply to
N8N

It's my understanding that the blocks (except for special HiPo blocks) were a fairly "soft" alloy, making a ring job pointless - if the rings are gone, you need to overbore and buy new pistons. Also most had cast cranks while other engines mentioned elsewhere in this thread had forged in even the most mundane apps, with larger bearing areas.

nate

Reply to
N8N

Naw, ya cain't. The only difference in service access is the 170 vs. 225 in a '60-'62 Valiant or Lancer. The heater box is on the firewall, and clearance is tight between the bottom of the heater box and the top of the rearmost 5 inches of the rocker cover on the 225. It is possible to remove the rocker cover without removing the heater box, but it's a 5-minute hassle that doesn't exist with the 170, which is an inch lower.

DS

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

I was thinking of how fast the car goes (not that any of them are going to set any records...) There is no substitute for cubic inches, especially when you've got relatively few of 'em...

Cheers,

--Joe

Reply to
Ad absurdum per aspera

Cast cranks in non-high-output applications are not necessarily a demerit. As Dave Blanton pointed out, the cast crank is often harder, substantially so, than the forged one. Aircraft people had a phobia about cast cranks because VW converters found cast, non-counterweighted VW cranks in direct drive propeller service would fail quickly. The VW engine crankshaft was not only never designed for direct propeller drive, they were putting the prop on the gen pulley end of the crank and either bolting the engine, sans flywheel, to the firewall and running a Vertex mag or putting it on spacers and driving an aircraft/tractor (same thing) mag by a long thin Gilmer type belt. I call this Mickey Mouse U. School of Engineering.

Chevy did cheese in using the two bolt main bearing caps in lower rated versions, but there is an aftermarket conversion that is even better than the factory four bolt setup. At any rate, Chevy (and Mopar) blocks have always been of generally lesser metallurgy than Ford blocks-but Ford then ruins the "advantage" by paper thin castings incapable of rebore. I think most of us rate this one as "a pox on all your houses" because sleeved bores are the right way to do things and no production iron block American engine has them.

Reply to
Bret Ludwig

The stock induction (and lesserly the exhaust) system on the /6 makes me want to vomit. A stainless or aluminized heavy wall tube exhaust and a good three two barrel carb setup or a sanitary and fixable FI setup would be a big improvement. Big, big improvement.

The other thing is there are few chassis I'd want to own that take the /6. The trucks, but they deserve a diesel.

Reply to
Bret Ludwig

Many Toyota engines are hell for stout and simple, as are the pushrod Subarus.

One advantage to many Japanese engines is they can be had very reasonably used with low miles from Japanese pulls. Cars are parted out or deported in Japan young because of an inspection law designed to keep old cars off the road.

Honda engines are a mixed bag because though they are reliable they are apparently difficult to work on internally. Most are electronic now, as are everyone else's and a carb and distributor is not an option on most, unlike Toys where even relatively recent ones have that option if you can find it-there is a distributor with advance mechanism available so you can run without an ECM. Also, they turn the wrong way, at least many of them, which would be OK for a Corvair or Citroen swap, but kills any other idea.

BEcause of their light weight you would think they would be OK for experimental aviation. Apparently not-the Subaru and Suzuki-Geo engines are used there but not the Honda. Go figure.

Reply to
Bret Ludwig

I wouldn't mind a '65 or '66 A-body, myself.

There are good intake and exhaust systems available for the slanty, as well...

nate

Reply to
N8N

Once upon a time, in a land far, far away I owned a '67 Dart 4-door with a 225 in it. Somewhere along the line the car had been bastardized and it had a later "super six" two-barrel intake on it; that car was surprisingly quick off the line and suprised quite a few people that thought they could beat my grandma-looking beater at the stoplight grand prix.

Some days I regret selling that car, but then again, the second time i replaced the transmission it was snowing...

nate

Reply to
N8N

I'm not aware of the need to use sleeves in either AMC or Studebaker builds... I've been told by people who should know that those are the two finest V-8s made when it comes to building a forced-induction engine that makes big HP numbers but is still reliable and streetable. Both apparently use high-nickel block castings as well, and I've heard from several sources that machine shops absolutely loathe being asked to overbore a Stude engine, as you can literally wear out a boring bar before you get done with the job.

Of course, neither the Stude nor the Rambler/AMC was manufactured in anything approaching the numbers of any of the Big Three, so apparently that capability is not a big selling point among the general American population... (why not? if i could buy one new, I'd be counting the hours until my warranty ran out...)

I'm curious as to the internals of a Toyota Supra engine, as I've heard the same thing about them (that they live perfectly happily with completely ludicrous amounts of boost) but I have no experience with them nor do I know how they hold up long term.

nate

Reply to
N8N

This is not true. The 300 cid six used in trucks was related to the much older big block inline six family that started in the fifties (or forties?). Another family member was the 240 cid six. The 144 cid, small block six, was related to the 170 cid, 200 cid, and 250 cid six cylinder engines. Family relations of this small six are still built in Australia.

See:

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Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

I think most any boring machine would use a replaceable tip such as tungsten carbide or some other popular cutting material. At any rate a sleeve is always a better way to go, particularly (from a heat transfer standpoint) a wet liner. I am no fan of dry liners because experience with dry linered 71 series Detroits shows "most people" will not take the time to get the clearances right and heat transfer suffers. Both sleeve and block suffer.

There are modern bore and ring materials combinations that are easy to do with liners but impossible in a cast block and that's another big incentive to go linered.

The old Supra/Cressida/LC DOHC six in the old Eighties ones was hell for stout, but it weighed as much as a small block Chevy or Ford for something like 180 CID. So it should have been overdesigned on the lower end. I have no idea whether they are cheaply available from the rice importers. I know getting diesels is like pulling teeth because the Phillipines and South Americans buy all the yards can supply. If you want a used Isuzu, Mits or Nissan diesel you buy a non-automotive core and convert it over.

Most of those Supras, and the Celicas that were the same car firewall aft, are dead of rust now. Their popularity with Oriental punk gang members hasn't helped their desirability either-like the gay hairdressers that bought Citroen SMs and rural retards fixated on certain GM two-doors.

On the street or in the water or the air, there is no CID limitation and we don't tax by displacement in the US. So although you may have the satisfaction of being able to say you have the highest specific output, you are not getting any advantage over more displacement. A reliable engine that has a good displacement to weight ratio and is compact has a lot going for it, something a lot of European engines do not-they are small displacement because they traditionally taxed vehicles on engine size, leading to such ridiculous things as the 700 lb DOHC Jag sixes made in 2.6 or some laughable size.

Reply to
Bret Ludwig

Definitely a nice engine. Unfortunately the rest of the car did not measure up. I think the engine was the only thing in my K-car that did not need to be fixed under warranty (well unless you include the auxiliary drive belts as part of the engine). Too bad Chrysler can't seem to put two parts together without something rattling. It is still the only new car I kept less than a year. At least the dealership mechanics were good at their jobs - but then they had a lot of practice. I never had to have the same thing fixed twice which I guess counts for something. I wish I could have said the same thing about the last Toyota I owned.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

You mean like a big adjustable wrench and a hammer? I actually have a set of the tools (which are not just for Fords), but the my favorite local shop just uses a big adjustable wrench. Sometimes they have to hit the end of the wrench with a hammer to break the hub loose (just be sure not to go the wrong way!).

I have a 1992 F150 with the 300 inch six. In 14 years, I've never touched the engine except to change the oil, and plugs (once). It does need new plug wires. I'll try to get around to it in the next few years. Unlike other Fords I've owned, it hasn't even needed the throttle body or IAC cleaned.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

I did the water pump once, and probably could have put it off since the shaft was only slightly loose, but not leaking. Luckily, I have an old country mechanic nearby who can help me over those humps, but he is getting into the Social Security age bracket, and is slowing down his business. He spends as much time shooting the bull with his customers as working, but he is competent and honest with his work, so I can't complain too much. His $80 tool was basically a big spanner wrench. I will have to see how big an adjustable I will need. I brought a larger one since I did the water pump, but I think it is still too small. I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

Reply to
Bruce_Nolte_N3LSY&

As I remember it was overhead cam and looked nothing like a Slant 6. A few were RWD for Dakota trucks, but that was an underpowered configuration and I think any such truck made is now a street truck with a 318 or bigger.

The old Dakota would have been a really good work truck-bigger than a Ranger or S10, smaller than full size- if a diesel had been available. Real trucks to me just don't have spark plugs.

Reply to
Bret Ludwig

I would love to see a diesel conversion in one of the old Power Wagons, but for most of the '70s and early '80s stuff, MOPAR stood for Mostly Old Parts and Rust. Nevertheless, my dad did a diesel conversion (mainly for the hell of it I think) of a beat-up and patched up '78 Dodge 4WD pickup that was held together mostly with duct tape and Bondo. He dropped a 4 cylinder B-series Cummins Turbo diesel into it in 1986 that had about 10,000 hours on it as a prototype test engine. It was as nasty as a Redneck's dream machine could be: it had solid engine mounts, sounded like a bulldozer, and had a front bumper made from 3/8 inch steel plate a foot tall. Main problem was it was limited in top speed to about 62 MPH due to the low RPM of the diesel and the gearing designed for a 318. We kept that truck in the family for about 10 years, until my brother in law sold it to some Good Ole Boys out Pittsburgh way for $200 about 8 years ago. Dad went on to buy a brand new 1989 Cummins Dodge the first year they were offered, and still drives it.

Reply to
Bruce_Nolte_N3LSY&

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