Which is the best Camry year?

"tbober" wrote: > Well, let me qualify this a little better. Which is the best > year for the Camry for the least problems (as far as > complaints on the NHTSA website) AND owner satisfaction? > > I currently own a 2005 Camry SE and have discovered serious > problems that others have also complained about to the NHTSA. > The vehicle may have to go back to Toyota. In any case, I > still want a Camry because I love it and don?t care how old or > used it is. > > ALL comments are appreciated.

What exactly have your problems been? I own a 05 SE with a manual trans, and I haven?t had any issues. Am I missing something?

Opinions will differ, but I would choose 1994 - 1996 four cylinder.

Later years may have improved (side) impact safety, but don't believe you will find a higher percentage of overall owner satisfaction. Seemed that everyone I spoke to was extremely pleased with their car, including my mechanic whose daughter who came off a freeway embankment, rolled the car, and walked away unharmed (he credited the air bag). By now there are maintenance issues though, oil seals, etc., but you said you didn't care about the age. If you could provide the labor, the cost of the seals themselves is minimal.

Your '05 has the variable valve timing for more power.

Personally, I would also find the '94 - 96 Japan manufacture with the "J" as the first letter in the VIN.

'94 was the first year of dual front air bags and CFC free 134a A/C refrigerant

These (and the prior generation with the smaller engine size) are the Camrys that people loved, "best car they've ever owned", never break down, type comments that built the reputation of Camry in this country.

"" wrote: > Opinions will differ, but I would choose 1994 - 1996 four > cylinder. > > Later years may have improved (side) impact safety, but don't > believe > you will find a higher percentage of overall owner > satisfaction. Seemed > that everyone I spoke to was extremely pleased with their car, > including my mechanic whose daughter who came off a freeway > embankment, > rolled the car, and walked away unharmed (he credited the air > bag). > By now there are maintenance issues though, oil seals, etc., > but you > said you didn't care about the age. If you could provide the > labor, the > cost of the seals themselves is minimal. > > Your '05 has the variable valve timing for more power. > > Personally, I would also find the '94 - 96 Japan manufacture > with the > "J" as the first letter in the VIN. > > '94 was the first year of dual front air bags and CFC free > 134a A/C > refrigerant > > These (and the prior generation with the smaller engine size) > are the > Camrys that people loved, "best car they've ever owned", never > break > down, type comments that built the reputation of Camry in > this country.

The 1994 Camry has over 340 complaints of serious problems taken by the NHTSA. 1995 is the same and 1996 is much worse with over 470 complaints. See:

was hoping for something where it is DOCUMENTED that it has FEWERserious problems than most other cars.

Shouldn't we divide the number of 'serious' complaints by the total number of Camry's sold during that year, to be able to do a fair comparison with other cars? And I wonder how easy it is to separate 'serious' complaints from 'non serious' ones...

Luc K

For example: if you look at the number of complaints for 1995 of the Lotus Esprit, you'll find only ONE: "FIRE DUE TO FAILURE OF THE FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM AT THE REAR OF FUEL RAIL". Does that single complaint make the Lotus Esprit a car 340 times as reliable as the Camry?

Luc K

So what is the ODI number to search for Camry.

"Fourmiler" wrote: > People are going to complain that is a fact. Most are > imaginary complaints Don't base a car on these. Compare to > other manufactors complaints and see. > > Justin, to let you know I have a 05 Camry built in Japan. Its > a SE with a 5 speed manual. All manual Camry's are made in > Japan, automatics are made in Alabama or some other spot down > there.

Actually, Fourmiler, the Camry manuals are made in Sri Lanka even though it says made in Japan. They don?t even have Toyota dealers there. It?s kind of weird. They all drive Morris Minors.

"tbober" wrote: > The 1994 Camry has over 340 complaints of serious problems > taken by the NHTSA. 1995 is the same and 1996 is much worse > with over 470 complaints. See: >

> I was hoping for something where it is DOCUMENTED that it has > FEWER serious problems than most other cars. People are going to complain that is a fact. Most are imaginary complaints Don?t base a car on these. Compare to other manufactors complaints and see.

Justin, to let you know I have a 05 Camry built in Japan. Its a SE with a 5 speed manual. All manual Camry?s are made in Japan, automatics are made in Alabama or some other spot down there.

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Me thinks you worry too much. How about enjoying the 2005 SE? I'm sure there's a ready resale market if you think you can find something better. Sounds like you're more of a Volvo kind of guy - just bring your checkbook when you visit the mechanic. ~~~~~~~ I remember when Consumer Reports reviewed my Cadillac. They listed all sorts of complaints and problems - of which I had experienced none. ~~~~~~ Just do your own research, model by model on NHTSA's web site if that's what floats your boat then report back after a few years to see if you're pleased with the selection. ~~~~~~ As a home mechanic doing all my own mechanical work, I look at the design and engineering aspects - and from my own observations, continue to be impressed by the quality of the Toyota overall. ~~~~~~~ Toyota Motor Company is the second largest automaker in the world, profitable and well managed. I'd be surprised to discover their worldwide increasing market share is built on dangerous or poor quality "problematic" products. ~~~~ In my admittedly limited understanding, NHTSA primarily focuses on crashworthiness - so as regulations are promulgated, the later model years should have higher levels of compliance. Your 2005 should be higher on their list than earlier years. ~~~~~~~~~ My recommendation? Learn, practice and perfect The Smith System of defensive driving, "the closest thing to an accident free guarantee." Decades ago, Harold Smith studied long distance professional accident free drivers and isolated and taught the characteristics that made them exceptional. The principles are still valid today and well worth studying. ~~~ As always, just my opinion, you're free to differ.

Actually, I searched for the "safety recalls" of the Camry '94. I think the result is quite funny... It's almost a Laurel&Hardy movie scene (with Laurel handing over the steering wheel to Hardy) :-)))

Luc K

"tbober" wrote: > Actually, Fourmiler, the Camry manuals are made in Sri Lanka > even though it says made in Japan. They don't even have > Toyota dealers there. It's kind of weird. They all drive > Morris Minors.

LOL talk about a multi national company!!!

"Fourmiler" wrote: > LOL talk about a multi national company!!!

LOL, just kidding (about Sri Lanka). That was just for the benefit of Fourmiler to see if he (or she?) would come back with some ACTUAL FACTS saying I was crazy! I did this because he said, "People are going to complain that is a fact. Most are imaginary complaints." The fact is that the NHTSA relies on complaints to require recalls forcing auto manufacturers to make cars safer! I highly respect the people who take the time to fill out complaint reports. Some of them have even sustained injuries. Some of them are even families of those who have died in accidents. YOU drive a safer car due to THEIR efforts.

Last year, I was looking at Consumer Reports at the marks they gave the recent Camrys. They rated their transmissions with the highest scores. I don?t know how they concluded this. The NHTSA and many other sources list scores of complaints about the recent Camry transmissions; it seems MORE than any other car in history. Even Toyota has TSBs (Technical Service Bulletins) that relate to transmission problems. My point is, again, you should check your FACTS, and SOURCES, before making remarks.

nospampls20021: So what is the ODI number to search for Camry? It lists all ODI numbers by vehicle year, make and model. I?m not sure that answers your question. The NHTSA regulates, and are the only ones that regulate and enforce every aspect of automotive safety. They wrote and enforce the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards and Regulations. They are a part of the U.S. Department of Transportation.

Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards: Standard No. 101 Controls and Displays Standard No. 102 Transmission Shift Lever Sequence, Starter Interlock, and Transmission Braking Effect Standard No. 103 Windshield Defrosting and Defogging Systems Standard No. 104 Windshield Wiping and Washing Systems Standard No. 105 Hydraulic and Electric Brake Systems Standard No. 106 Brake Hoses Standard No. 108 Lamps, Reflective Devices, and Associated Equipment Standard No. 109 New Pneumatic Tires for Passenger Cars Standard No. 110 Tire Selection and Rims for Passenger Cars Standard No. 111 Rearview Mirrors Standard No. 112 [Reserved] Requirements moved to Standard No. 108 - Headlamp Concealment Devices Standard No. 113 Hood Latch System Standard No. 114 Theft Protection Standard No. 115 [Reserved] Requirements moved to Part 565 - Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) Standard No. 116 Motor Vehicle Brake Fluids Standard No. 117 Retreaded Pneumatic Tires Standard No. 118 Power-Operated Window, Partition, and Roof Panel Systems Standard No. 119 New Pneumatic Tires for Vehicles Other Than Passenger Cars Standard No. 120 Tire Selection and Rims for Motor Vehicles Other Than Passenger Cars Standard No. 121 Air Brake Systems Standard No. 122 Motorcycle Brake Systems Standard No. 125 Motorcycle Controls and Displays Standard No. 124 Accelerator Control Systems Standard No. 125 Warning Devices Standard No. 126 [Reserved] Requirements moved to Part 575.103 Truck-Camper Loading Standard No. 129 New Non-Pneumatic Tires for Passenger Cars - New Temporary Spare Non-Pneumatic Tires for Use on Passenger Cars Standard No. 131 School Bus Pedestrian Safety Devices Standard No. 135 Light Vehicle Brake Systems Standard No. 201 Occupant Protection in Interior Impact Standard No. 202 Head Restraints Standard No. 203 Impact Protection for the Driver from the Steering Control System Standard No. 204 Steering Control Rearward Displacement Standard No. 205 Glazing Materials Standard No. 206 Door Locks and Door Retention Components Standard No. 207 Seating Systems Standard No. 208 Occupant Crash Protection Standard No. 209 Seat Belt Assemblies Standard No. 210 Seat Belt Assembly Anchorages Standard No. 212 Windshield Mounting Standard No. 213 Child Restraint Systems Standard No. 214 Side Impact Protection Standard No. 216 Roof Crush Resistance Standard No. 217 Bus Emergency Exits and Window Retention and Release Standard No. 218 Motorcycle Helmets Standard No. 219 Windshield Zone Intrusion Standard No. 220 School Bus Rollover Protection Standard No. 221 School Bus Body Joint Strength Standard No. 222 School Bus Passenger Seating and Crash Protection Standard No. 223 Rear Impact Guards Standard No. 224 Rear Impact Protection Standard No. 301 Fuel System Integrity Standard No. 302 Flammability of Interior Materials Standard No. 303 Fuel System Integrity of Compressed Natural Gas Vehicles Standard No. 304 Compressed Natural Gas Fuel Container Integrity Standard No. 500 Low Speed Vehicles and so on..

nospampls20021: your final remark is that you recommend that we all learn how to drive (like Mr. Smith) and ignore the work the NHTSA is doing to make OUR cars safer and making us more aware of the importance of being responsible and keeping them updated. I?m sorry nospampls20021, I usually like to say nice things about people, but I find that this remark is irresponsible. Nothing personal, really.

As I said before: I think that you should divide the number of complaints by the number of cars sold to be able to compare. Otherwise, you'll conclude that Ferrari builds the most reliable cars "in history"...

Luc K

"" wrote: > tbober wrote: > > Last year, I was looking at Consumer Reports at the marks > they gave > > the recent Camrys. They rated their transmissions with the > highest > > scores. I don't know how they concluded this. The NHTSA > and many > > other sources list scores of complaints about the recent > Camry > > transmissions; it seems MORE than any other car in history. > Even > > Toyota has TSBs (Technical Service Bulletins) that relate to > > transmission problems. My point is, again, you should check > your > > FACTS, and SOURCES, before making remarks. > > As I said before: I think that you should divide the number of > complaints by > the number of cars sold to be able to compare. > Otherwise, you'll conclude that Ferrari builds the most > reliable cars "in > history"... > > Luc K

What is valid more than comparing sheer numbers is verifying more than one of the same complaint that spans more than one year. Any complaint that includes accidents and injuries that are not recognized by the manufacturer is abhorrent. TSBs generated by complaints are the most valid measure of validity. The worst situation is to have a dealer deny that a problem exists when it is clearly documented with one of their TSBs. That is called fraud. Facts, sources and verifiable evidence. I?m no lawyer, but I use common sense.

Perhaps you need to put the Camry numbers into perspective and also look at the recall numbers. The 1995 Camry has had only one recall.

The '95 Honda Accord has 606 complaints, though one of the first ones on the list is "MICHELIN TIRE WENT FLAT DUE TO A CUT." Someone cut his tire, so Honda is at fault? Anyway, the Accord has had two recalls.

The Ford Taurus, for comparison, has had 6 recalls and 1521 complaints! Millions of Tauruses were recalled because the engine and trans subframe could fall under the car! So quality is job what???

I'm sure glad that I bought a '95 Camry rather than a Taurus! It's still a great car. Much better than my 2000 Dodge Caravan, which had two problems in its first month - the clip for sun visor broke (and was not covered bythe warranty for some reason) and passenger power window failed (a recurring problem!).

I will probably never buy another American car.