Need your expert opinion on which Porsche to buy ...

Hi there, I want to buy a Porsche as a summer car and don't want to invest more than 20 000 USD in the project. I'm looking at Ebay 1979 to 1990 Porsche 911, 930, etc, and I see a lot of different engines (3.0L, 3.2L, 3.6L, etc) and different models. Some models sounds to have weaknest that others don't shows. I know taht I like very much the Whale tail model and not a Targa fan. My goal is to have a beautiful old reliable Porsche to have ride, fun and no headaches.

Any advice or quick course on the pros and cons and what to make sure ?

Thanks, Guy Quebec, Canada

Reply to
pailleg
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Al us Porsche owners will read your post and smile, "I recall thinking the exact same thing!"

I'll pick a model with an '81 911S. Get one with the fewest miles, best interior and most complete maintenance records.

As for more pointed specifics, you've got to do your own research and learning. Then you can evaluate the cars that are available in your area and price range. Waiting for a specific model/trim/color/condition/price could take forever.

Also, think about broadening your search. If "Porsche" means "911" you've got company but leaving out a lot of nice cars. A nice 968 or 928 can be had for those dollars. Same rules apply: inspect and check.

And make sure to keep $3K or so > Hi there, I want to buy a Porsche as a summer car and don't want to

Reply to
someone

Awesome thanks, this is really someone advice !!!

Is 928 doesn't means trouble at all time ? I heard that a lot of times. For the 911, what is the worst weakness to check (rail rust, A/C, shifter, etc.)

Thanks,

Guy

snipped-for-privacy@somewhere.net wrote:

Reply to
pailleg
944S2 Cabriolet. More power than most of those 911's mentioned and sure as hell handles much better.

968 Cabriolet. Even more power, and like the 944 handles like a mother, but has six speed or tiptronic option.

When I bought my S2 back in 1999, I drove plenty of late Carrera's and SC's (My favorite of the old 911's) and the 944 ran circles around it in every sense of the word.

Reply to
Devils944S2

The 944 is a nice car. It is based on the 928. Porsche only designed two cars from scratch, the boxster and the 928. The 928 is the V-8 (Original) version that runs like, well, It's about as fast as you can go without having to eat airline food! Not to mention it out handles almost any other Porsche! (It eats 911's for a light lunch and doesn't even think about belching!) I love mine (It's the most fun you can have with your clothes on!) but the other half wants me to sell it because I have too many toys ;-( I'd rather sell my live sound & lighting system! The 928 has never got it's due but it really is the ultimate Porsche!

Wanna buy a really large live sound & lighting system so I can keep my 928? Make you a great deal! $150,000 system for only $30,000! I really want to keep my 928!

Roger Lincoln, NE

(1984 euro/slopenose with 85,300 miles)

Reply to
Success Productions

My biggest beef with the 928, other than the styling up until the S4 era until the end of production not being my cup of tea, is that it's damn near impossible to find one with a stick. I never quite understood (never asked, either, I suppose) why almost all of these sports cars came with an A/T. Once in a great while I see one for sale with a 5-speed, but they're few and far between. If I were to shop for one, I'd have to weed the field down to 5-speeds first, and THEN start looking for a car that also didn't have excessive miles or wear, poor maintenance, etc. Too few cars left at that point, I would think.

Which transmission do you have, by the way?

- Chris

Reply to
Chris Sprague

I really would like a 95 S4, but $$$ holds me back. I also want an S2, and a 356, and a...

Because they are GT cars not sports cars is my guess.

My bet is the A/T.

DS

95 993 Coupe
Reply to
The Dead Senator

ESSENTIAL READING before your purchase:

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really.

Reply to
Mark.Kanim

They stopped making s4's in 90, I believe and continured with GT's and then GTs's up to '95.

I have owned an 85 1/2 944 NA, an 88 924SE, and90 928 S4, and now an 88 928 S4. They have all had their particular pros and cons. The 944 NA was not quick, but was very fun to drive and very easy to work on. The 924SE was quicker and also fun to drive, but the 924 doesn't have the sexy curves of a

944. My 90 S4 was an automatic with high miles and was a very good car. While harder and a little more expensive to work on, I could still do about any of the necessary wrenching. I replaced it with the 88 S4 with 5-speed and low miles that took me about 3 months to find. It was well worth the wait. I believe I'll hang on to this car until I come across a solid GTS in my price range, or maybe I'll just supercharge this one and hang on to it indefinitely.

The 928 is an awesome car, quick, fast, agile, and very comfortable. They are sexy beasts and get a lot of attention. With the right wheels and color, there are very few cars on the road that look this good, and you will rarely pass another 928 on the road in your daily commutes. If you have patience and readily available cash, you can find a 5-speed in good shape and pounce on it. You won't be sorry. Keep an eye on the rennlist forums for one.

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Reply to
Vball23

On the Autocar website's forum, we recently had a thread on the car you most wished for that never existed. One of mine was a Porsche

928GT with 6-speed and VarioRam engine, the next step up if the line hadn't been dropped.* And they are scarce - the entire time I had my 928, I never saw another on the road. In nearly two years since, I've seen a black GT and a red 928S like mine. epbrown (The other Porsche was a Cayman twin-turbo).

-- "Everybody wants a normal life and a cool car; most people will settle for the car." Chris Titus

2003 BMW 325i Black/Black, 2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black
Reply to
E Brown

No it's not. The 944's chassis was an evolution of the 924's. *However* the 944's original powerplant, a 2.5 litre inline 4-cylinder, was derived from the 928's 5.0 litre V8.

Again, untrue. The 911 was designed from scratch in 1963, it might be tempting to think of it as a derivitave of the 356, but this simply wasn't the case. The 964 and 993 were technically part of the same evolutionary line as the original Type 911, but so significant were the changes that were effectively all-new vehicles. The 996 was entirely new at the time of it's release, some commonalities, such as the layout of the rear suspension, were present, but that doesn't make the 996 a version of the 993.

The 924 and 914 were designed with the intention of being compatible with certain existing parts, but they were designed fresh from the ground up. And while the 968 evolved out of the 951 (itself evolved from the 924 Carrera GT), it was 80% new when released.

The 928 was *easier* to drive than the 911 and more powerful too. So for about 80% of untrained drivers, it will outrun a 911. But it was also larger, heavier and more cumbersome than a 911. A trained driver in a comparablly priced 930 certainly isn't going to be a "light breakfast" for a 928 - god forbid the 911 driver gets his hands on a

964 Turbo and the race will be over before it starts.

As per the original poster's question - my personal preferances within your price range would be either a low mileage Carrera 3.2 or a 951 (944 Turbo). In all likelihood, your going to be dealing with cars that are in far from perfect shape, interior re-freshing, paintwork and a full tune-up and new braking components will be on the list of needs for 95% of what you find. Poraches are expensive to work on and it's simply not worth purchasing one if you can't afford to splurg and get everything done.

Seeing as you've never owned a Porsche before, do yourself a big favor

- if you buy one, take it to a dealer for servicing, at least for the first year. Good private garages are hard to find and while most of them employ ASC Certified mechanics, very few of them actually specialize in Porsches (even the ones that claim as much are usually full of crap). A good dealer can give the car a full workover for you - I'd plan on spending three to five thousand in essential cleanup and restoration work on top of around $16-18k for a real nice 911 3.2 or about $12-15k for a nice 951.

Reply to
Filmophile

S4-->1991 Shoot, thanks for the correction. Obviously, I am no expert on 928s and I had not had any coffee, yet. ;~P

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Reply to
The Dead Senator

While not exactly derived from the 356, the 911 was certainly based on it. The 911 was larger and considered "luxurious" the purists huffed that it wasn't a real Porsche!

with certain existing parts>

Actually, no, the 914 was orginally meant to replace the Karmann Ghia and is a Volkswagen design. The 924 was born from a joint Volkswagen/Porsche collaboration the VW abandoned. The 924 was meant to be all fresh, but due the the economic times was forced to use spare parts.

Actually this statement is a bit inaccurate. The 968 evolved from the 944S2 sharing the same powerplant (3.0). In fact the 968 was orginally called the

944S3. After the update was done, the two shared so little that a new designation was born.

Porsche only really designed two cars from the ground up. The 928 and the Boxster. Everything else came from a joint venture with another maker, or was based on something previously built. The 356/911 from the VW Beetle, the

914 from the Karmann Ghia, the 924/944/951/968 from the A420. Even the Cayenne has VW history.
Reply to
Devils944S2

I agree about the 911, but I disagree about the 964. Though the 964 was the first 911 different enough in Porsche's eyes to warrant a new build designation (everything from 1964 to 1989 was still a type 911), it's still a bored out 911 with coil-over suspension. Most telling is the fact that most of the hardware, from engine to exterior parts to suspension, can be migrated to previous models pretty much unaltered. The 993 was the first evolution of the 911 design I won't debate the 914 and 924, due to their polluted histories as VWs. I would say that the 968 is analogous to the 993 - it's a new evolution of the 924 design.

This - eh, I'm somewhat conflicted about the above. Unleash Walter Rohrl with a 928GT and 930 and I think he'd cross the line sooner in the 928. Call it heavy, but the 928's weight, suspension, and power profiles are along the lines of the current 911s, years before the

996/7 made the scene. The 930 would struggle with turbo lag on the straights and its torsion-bar suspension and inferior weight distribution on the curves. The 964 turbo would be a more worthy opponent, though.

The problem with dealerships is employee turnover. You'd be hard-pressed to find a dealership that currently employs mechanics that have actually worked on a 944 turbo, 928, or even a pre-90s 911, which are all close to or more than 20 years old. I had a dealership tell me flat out that I'd be better off going elsewhere for work on my

928, and they're of a similar bent regarding the 944 from what I've heard. I'd try them for a 993 or newer 911 and Boxsters, but aside from that I'd go with an independent for the work I couldn't do myself. epbrown

-- "Everybody wants a normal life and a cool car; most people will settle for the car." Chris Titus

2003 BMW 325i Black/Black, 2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black
Reply to
E Brown

If you have 20K to spend on a porsche get 911 3.2 84-89 classic and reliable make sure you have it checked out first before buying. For experta advice the pelican parts forum is the place to get your questions answered

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click the forums tab once you have entered.

cheers

Matt

E Brown wrote:

Reply to
toddmat

Nothing about the 911 was "based on" any part of the 356. They both had rear-mounted air cooled engines, but that was were the similarity more or less ended. The 356's chassis and engine were evolved from the Volkswagen Beetle, the 911 was a cleansheet design.

The 914 *was* intended to be a VW product, but Porsche helped with it's design, which was entirely new at the time. Porsche also happened to be looking for a way to replace the 912 and the 914 fit their needs. The original plan was to sell Type IV powered versions as VWs and 911 powered versions as Porsches (a setup which they maintained in Europe). Only in the U.S. were both models sold as Porsches. This doesn't change the fact that it was an all new design.

You're mixing your facts. Audi wanted a sports coupe to fit in at the top of their lineup, and approached Porsche to develop it for them. The only requirement was that it needed to be compatible with existing VW/Audi engines and transmissions, a provision that Porsche complied with. When Audi dropped the project in favor of the Quattro Coupe' prototype, Porsche took up the vehicle to replace the 914.

Again, you're mixing facts. The 968 *was* originally intended to be a

944 S3, but it's Brembo manufactured braking system and several key suspension system components came off the 951 because they were beefier than what came on the standard 944. In addition, the 968 also featured both a then-new six speed manual transmission and a four speed Tiptronic (optional), the engine was updated (it now featured Variocam) and made more powerful and it featured dual airbags. According to Porsche, 80% of it was *brand new* at the time of it's release.
Reply to
Filmophile

Once again, no. You seem to be a bit confused with history.

The 944S2 also had the Brembo system as well as the beefed up suspension.

< In addition, the 968 also featured both a then-new six speed manual transmission and a four speed Tiptronic (optional)>

Nobody is arguing that, but those were also not featured on the 951.

Once again, the "updated" motor was the same basic motor as the 16 valve 3.0 liter 944S2. All 951's were the 2.5l, 8 valve variants.

Another standard feature of the 944S2.

Reply to
Devils944S2

I think that you need to go and re-read the book yourself. I can't seem to locate my copy, but I do have my copy of "Porsche Legends" here next to me, and am open to the section where author Randy Leffingwell is talking to Tony Lapine about the development of the 924.

In 1971, Rudolf Leiding was made managing director of VW; up until this point, Porsche had done most of the company's R&D for them, but Leiding wanted that to change. He wanted to move the company into front engined, water cooled vehicles and to completely remove VW from Porsche's shadow; the problem was that VW was still under contract with Porsche. In the meantime, Leiding gave Porsche a project, to come up with a sports car that could serve as VW/Audi's top offering, and he told them to use anything and everything from the corporate "shelf". Porsche designed the chassis from scratch, but made sure that the vehicle would be compatible with existing VW/Audi braking components, engines and transmissions. But the oil crisis began, Leiding got fired and Audi began toying with the Quattro Coupe, and VW dropped the project. In addition, VW was getting ready to close their NSU plant in Neckarsulm, partly because it was underutilized. Porsche, wanting a replacement for the 914 and not wanting the car to go to waste, bought the project back from VW and contracted them to build it in the NSU plant, thus creating the Porsche 924.

In any case, my argument was only that the 924 was designed from scratch. It wasn't a modified version of anything Porsche or VW/Audi were already making. As far as the 968 goes, it's my understanding that many of it's parts were either taken from or developments of parts that were used on the 951, which Porsche regarded as having been the best development of the line.

The 3.0 litre in the 968 had completely different heads, induction and exhuast systems from what had been used in the 944, plus it featured Variocam. It may have used the same basic block design as what had been in the 944S2 but it was a fairly significant upgrade, power rose by somewhere on the order of 19%.

Reply to
Filmophile

Not to belabor the point any further, but no, your understanding is wrong. The 951 was simply a turbocharged version of the 944 with added suspension and brakes. The 968 was the updated version of the 944S2. The Turbo died in

1989, the S2 was made right up to and until the 968 was released. The last ones (1991) being produced in Stuttgart.

Once again, no. The 3.0 liter 944S2 and the 3.0 liter 968 shared virtually the same technology. Chain driven exhaust timing, etc...the variocam cause induction and exaust updates, but was based solely on the 944S2 and had nothing to do with the 951. When they turbocharged a few 968's they went back to the original 8 valve head. The 968 had a stock HP of 239HP. The

944S2 had a stock HP of 208HP, an increase of around 13%, due primarily to the variocam design.

Listen, we could debate this all day, but as a 944-944S2 owner for close to

17 years, I would have to believe I would know my cars. The 951 and 951S were great cars, but were 944na variants. The S2 was the culmination of the 944 line and led to the 968.
Reply to
Devils944S2

Porsche engineers might take issue with that assertion. The 944's 3.0 litre engine was essentially brand new when it arrived; despite having common displacment, the 951's top end was more akin to what was used in the 924 Turbo and 924 Carrera GT, complete with the old 8-valve head system. There were also transmission upgrades and I believe some care was made to ensure better engine cooling was available.

was made right up to and until the 968 was released.

A moot point. The 80's vintage Carrera 3.2 had more in common with the

1964 Type 911 than it did with the 993, although much less time seperated it from the 993 than seperated it from the Type 911. I can't give you an ad naseum list of every little thing that made a 951 different from a standard 944 without sitting here and reading through my texts on the subject. But I'll stick by my assertion until some real-world proof can be presented that I'm incorrrect.

years, I would have to believe I would know my cars.

Believe me when I say I'm trying *not* to be insulting here, but ownership means diddly shit. If you knew all that much, you would've been right about the 924 and I wouldn't have needed to re-consult my books.

Reply to
Filmophile

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