Read this before you buy

frod didn't have it on their exploder back then - you know, the one that killed so many people when it rolled and the roof collapsed.

crappy roll dynamics are always going to be a problem on suv's. e.s.c. doesn't address spring rates or c.o.g. so if they're going to roll, they need to have a cabin that will not crush. that's been known from day one but widely ignored since it's invisible to the consumer [until they die of course] and maintains profit margins. e.s.c. is lipstick on a pig in that regard.

snipped-for-privacy@i3g2000yql.googlegroups.com:

There is the possiblity that drivers will adjust to it by becoming more agressive and wipe out the safety advantages. There is no evidence that that has happened, but I guess we would need a long term trend to rule that possiblity out.

It's interesting that the EU has an agressive awareness program

and the US NHTSA does not. Most people don't know they have it and it may be that the NHTSA wants to keep it that way because they are worried about the tendancy to compensate and wipe out the advantages. Fatalities per vehicle mile has been going down in the US, and the NHTSA seems to be deliberately vague about the cause, they don't mention ESC as a factor. The EU is trailing the US in the introduction of ESC because the population tends to buy the smaller cars that tend to be the hold outs on making it standard.

And, side impacts (including those from a rollover) are hard to protect against. You can't add a foot for a crumple zone. Side curtain and torso air bags help some.

Do you have any links to these studies?

See the links on the right of this page:

(ESC)

I had already read this. You may consider statistics for Mercedes, Lexus, and Toyota Forerunner to be comprehensive and a good predictor of all SUVs with ESC but I don't. No matter, you don't have to sell me on the effectiveness of ESC so don't hassle me about this.

The statistics are SUV from 8 different manufacturers. 16 different models and configuratons are included. It was pretty comprehensive given the publication date. Did not leave out many that were on the road at the time, and those probably had redesigns that made with/ without ESC comparison invalid.

I am not aware of a report with statistics only on Mercedes, Lexus, Toyota. Where did you find that report? ;-)

100 SUV models have ESC now. I am not sure the government will do another report of that sort. The 2007 report was part of the effort to back up the rule change.

Here's a 2010 report from IIHS. They find a 1/3 reduction in fatalities, lower than some early studies. They speculate that this is due to the fact that the early adopters tended to be weighted toward sports cars that were driven faster and 4WD SUVs that were selectively purchased in slippery road conditions. See the discussion section.

Ford has a related technology called RSC which adds another gyroscope to detect roll, basic ESC just detects yaw. Also its cuts back the throttle some when roll is detected. But I have not seen data on how effective RSC is. I think some other impliementations of ESC also cut the throttle and don't just rely on the ABS system.