Senate votes to end $6 billion in ethanol subsidies (73-27)

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GOOD! cuhulin

Reply to
cuhulin
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I agree, just because something happens to be an "alternative fuel" doesn't mean it's a good idea. Now if ethanol could be produced in a way that was actually renewable, i'd be all for it.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

It IS renewable, whether made from sugar cane, potatoes, or corn. It just isnt a good deal. It is a pork pie from congress to Archer Daniels Midland. There MUST be better ways.

Reply to
hls

Nate Nagel wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news3.newsguy.com:

And if perpetual-motion machines were available for sale, I'd buy one. Ethanol is, and always will be, a loser.

I'm frankly shocked the Senate actually had the guts to risk votes trying to kill this monster. Then again, the bill has an uphill fight against the House and Obama, so the Senate may end up being able to have its cake and eat it too.

Reply to
Tegger

It is. From sugar cane. The feds put high tarrifs on imported ethanol because it's cheaper than corn ethanol. So only HI gets sugar cane ethanol if anywhere in the US.

Reply to
Brent

We already have the best way for the system we have. The best way for those who hold political office and those close to them.

A better way for us requires a system where each of us decide for ourself.

But americans still by and large prefer to be treated like children and have other people make decisions for them.

Reply to
Brent

I don't consider it renewable if it takes an equivalent amount of other (usually fossil fuel) energy to produce. Now if you could power all your farm equipment on ethanol and still have some left over to sell, then it'd be "renewable."

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

Nate Nagel wrote in news:iteehb01894 @news7.newsguy.com:

With the advances made it is now almost 2 to 1 return now. It may not be suger cane but the energy used to make ethanol from corn is MUCH less than even 2 years ago. AND it keeps $ in OUR country not some dam idiot hell bent on killing us alls pocket. That is not a throw away deal. KB

Reply to
Kevin Bottorff

That corn takes a lot of ammonia based fertilizer to grow well, and that comes normally from petroleum. Admittedly, recovered corn mash from a distillation process could still be used in animal feed, and would probably make old "Daisy" even more contented.

I like ethanol as a fuel in many ways, but I dont believe the ADM, Congress, conspiracy was meant to help the most of us.

Keeping our money out of the hands of foreigners (or Americans) who have no loyalty to us is perhaps a good idea. We have enough natural gas here in the continental USA to last for a long long time.

I just see this all as a helterskelter grab for subsidy funds.

Reply to
hls

No it Doesn't. Nowadays nitrogen is made using natural gas. And typically its made in places with a surplus of gas and where it is uneconomical to ship it anywhere

They should end the subsidy. Tax it the same as gasoline It won't change anything. Ethanol is still cheaper than gasoline It will still be blended with gasoline

What should be done is the EPA should test fuel economy with ethanol blended gasoline there are new cars that get better mileage with ethanol blends than straight gasoline but it is illegal in the US for the manufacturer to advertise the mileage that a car gets with ethanol blends

In Brazil they test fuel economy with ethanol in the gas and in Brazil they sell cars that get better fuel economy with ethanol blends.

Reply to
jim

I used the generic term "petroleum" but in fact it has been made from natural gas, as a source of hydrogen, for a long time. Since natural gas also has value as a fuel, I think my point is still valid.

Actually, in Brasil you can still run your appropriate car on pure ethanol. I lived there during the early years of this project, and it has helped them to become independent of foreign oil to a degree that was not possible before. I spoke earlier that I thought (know) ethanol can be a good fuel. It was commercially successful in Brasil when there was a shortage of petroleum products, including natural gas. Sugar cane requires no fertilizer, and the distillation was at least partially fired by burning the bagasse at the distillery. So dont tell me it can't be successful...that was my song back in the 70's, but the Brasilians made it work.

Reply to
hls

jim wrote in news:eaadnTWqQqAOH2bQnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@bright.net:

I have been experminting with up to 30% blends in all my non flex fuel rangers and my 03 3.0 liter gets a little better milage, my 98 4.0 gets the same and my 4 banger stick 07 Fusion gets about a half a mpg less, so the 30% blend is deff saving me money. KB

Reply to
Kevin Bottorff

Some years ago, there was an article, perhaps in Mother Earth News about a pottering little scientist, perhaps in Australia. He was charging a reactor with chicken shit, and using methanogenic bacterial to generate methane. He then pumped it out and burned it in his little car. Worked very well, according to the article..And there is plenty of THAT raw material here too.

Reply to
hls

Yes some cars do get better mileage and the ratio where the best efficiency can be had is usually about 20%-30%

If the EPA allowed higher blends and allowed car makers to test and advertise their fuel economy using ethanol blends there would soon be many cars available that got better mileage with ethanol blends

Today cars are by law designed and tested with fuel that contains no ethanol even though almost every gas tank has ethanol in it.

Reply to
jim

You didn't state a point.

If the point you are back-handedly implying is ethanol uses a lot of imported petroleum then your point is not valid

The US imports 70% of its oil Most of the energy used to make ethanol comes from domestically produced natural gas not imported oil

Your badly misinformed. Brazilian growers use 80% of the nitrogen to produce a gallon of ethanol that American growers do. The difference is that after you make ethanol from corn you have a large amount of high protean livestock feed left. That is where the extra nitrogen ends up - the production of protein

Reply to
jim

I hear bullshit works pretty well.

No, really! They had a story on NBC a couple years ago where a guy was extracting methane from cow manure, using the methane to light something like 20 houses in his neighborhood, running his farm off it, and the left over waste was used for fertilizer.

God knows we have PLENTY of bullshit in this country!

Reply to
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B

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A guy in England did it.Seems like it worked great for him. cuhulin

Reply to
cuhulin

jim wrote in news:NI2dnXiPBsnKKWbQnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@bright.net:

and it is a high quality feed that is very good for beef and works pretty good for hogs and poultry also. It is used heavyly here for all of em. KB

Reply to
Kevin Bottorff

Im not misinformed about anything. These are two different fermentation sources, two slightly different concepts. The sugar mills, in general, also produce the alcohol.

Nitrogen fertilizers are not needed to produce crops like mandioca, potatoes, or sugar cane.

Reply to
hls

now that is good common sense. hope that the idea spreads (so to speak.)

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

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