Synthetic Motor Oil

i.e. as someone who actually drinks automotive fluids.

Reply to
Kaz Kylheku
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Good question..Synthetic normally refers to something man made, as opposed to something that exists in and is derived from nature.

All motor lubricants, except for vegetable oil or animal derivitives, start life as petroleum.

Even the 'full synthetics' such as poly(alphaolefins) used petroleum as the feed stock. Polyglycolesters come from the same origins, as do the silicones (at least partially).

It is a judgement call as to when you have altered the feedstock so much that you have created something not substantially occuring in nature.

And I will have to defend the producers, at least in some cases. Some may be trying to hoodwink the public, but I feel that many, if not most, believe their products are sufficiently processed to warrant the synthetic designation.

Reply to
<HLS

Depends on the manufacturer/marketer and sometimes the weight. Many readily available "synthetic" motor oils don't contain any petroleum-sourced base oil except maybe a small amount as an additive carrier. Mobil 1 is an example, as is Red Line. There's the "mysterious" (German-made) Castrol 0W-30. Pennzoil's newer Platinum oil is supposed to be petroleum free.

Again - additive packs are often the real advances in motor oil technology. One of the things about charging more for a "synthetic" oil is that the manufacturer might be willing to put in a more expensive additive.

There's a use for almost everything in the refining process. Then there are processes that change the structure of some of the "fractions".

There are some manufacturers that have motor oil approval lists or specific standards. These include GM 4718M for the Corvette, BMW-LL, a host of VW standards, Mercedes-Benz 229.X. These generally set the bar higher than API SM, although not all of the approved oils are marketed as "synthetic".

Reply to
y_p_w

Yup, good explanation, snake oil by any other name....

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06
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Reply to
Mike Romain

The feed stock for polyalphaolefins are supposed to be ethylene gas (C2H4). Breaking down petroleum sources into smaller molecules (a quick search yields the term "steam cracking") is one way. I've read about ethylene production from coal gas. ExxonMobil cracks ethylene from natural gas ethane sources. Apparently it's possible to make ethylene from plant sources, but it's not economically practical.

Since PAO can be made without petroleum, I wouldn't say that it's necessarily a petrochemical.

Ethylene gas is also used to ripen fruit. Tomatoes picked green can be turned red from ethylene gas exposure.

Reply to
y_p_w

Poly(alphaolefin) includes a lot of territory. Poly(ethylene), poly(propylene), and poly(butylene(s)) are also PAO's. The alphaolefin monomers are produced in chainlengths of over well over 20 carbons. Each one can be polymerized.

As far as I know, there is no serious production of olefins from anything other than petroleum, although certainly there are other paths to them. If you know of any serious production, I will certainly be happy to amend my statement.

Coal is a rich resource, and could be made into range of products. It would be a lot easier if we have a good cheap source of hydrogen (which we really don't yet), but again there are other paths.

I am very aware of the chemistries involved.

Reply to
<HLS

Just check the ExxonMobil website for the Fife Ethylene Plant in Scotland. This plant in Fife seems to have about the same capacity as ExxonMobil's Singapore steam cracking ethylene plant. EM has several press releases about their "flexible feed" ethylene plants which include petroleum steam cracking and ethane cracking.

"ExxonMobil Chemical's Fife Ethylene Plant (FEP) is one of Europe's largest and most modern ethylene plants. Construction at Mossmoran, 25 miles north of Edinburgh, began in 1981 and the plant was officially opened by the Queen in 1986. It was the first plant specifically designed to use natural gas liquids from the North Sea as feedstock. Around 230 employees and 50 core contractors work at the plant that has an annual capacity of

830,000 tonnes of ethylene."

I linked this previously:

"Ethylene is a basic chemical widely used in the production of everyday items such as plastic bags, washing up liquids, paints, anitfreeze and car components.

The plant's feedstock is ethane which arrives at the plant after a series of processes. First, natural gas liquids from the Brent offshore oil and gas field are piped to the Shell/Esso gas processing plant at St Fergus. Here the methane is removed and the remaining gas liquids are sent via a 138-mile underground pipeline to the Shell/Esso Natural Gas Liquids plant which is adjacent to the ExxonMobil Chemical's ethylene plant at Mossmoran. The ethane is purified and sent to the ethylene plant.

The ethane is heated in a steam mix, a process which breaks down or 'cracks' the ethane into ethylene, hydrogen and other byproducts. Sudden cooling then stops the reaction and the subsequent mixture of gases is compressed, chilled and separated in a series of distillation towers.

Uncracked ethane is recycled and all other by-product gases are used as fuel in the plant's furnaces and gas turbine."

Distillation towers in Scotland. Who would believe that? ;-)

"Which Gas is Which? Liquid Petroleum Gas (LPG) is a mix of ethane, propane and butane. Once separated ethane is used in the manufacture of detergents and plastics such as polythene and polystyrene, which in turn are used for plastic food wraps, plastic bags and polystyrene foam."

Reply to
y_p_w

There is something very formulaic about your posts. Formula goes something like this:

  1. Ask a Dorothy Dix type question
  2. Wait for answers
  3. Answer your own question.
Reply to
ShazWozza

Reply to
<HLS

I would.

I lived and worked north of Aberdeen in the oil industry. Also lived in Norway and worked offshore in the Phillips operated Ekofisk field and some of the others.

They produce large amounts of natural gas, LNG, and light crude oil.

The offshore petroleum comes ashore to Scotland by pipeline from the UK northern fields. (Scotland could be very rich if they got England off their back, as some of the better fields are largely in Scottish waters.)

Seal Sands and others in England take crude oil from the Norwegian sector. The gas from the Norwegian fields goes to Emden, Germany via a

36 inch pipeline..

We have wells in the Statfjord field in Norway that were, at their prime, making 50,000 barrels per day EACH....more than the total production of all wells in most American fields.

(They have declined in recent years, but still produce prodigious amounts of oil.)

Companies which have been involved in conversion of petroleum feed stocks to alphaolefins include the old Gulf Oil, Chevron, Sasol, Shell, Conoco, and others.

We purchased a unit in Finland about two years ago which converts selected alphaolefins to extremely high molecular weight polymers which are used as additives to oil and product pipelines.

These polymers are essentially solids, and when only a trace is dissolved in oil or product, it can raise the viscosity drastically. Believe it or not, when you add those polymers at the right concentrations, it improves the flow in the pipeline rather than reduces it.

Interesting chemistry.

Reply to
<HLS

Of course you realize my reference is to another type of distilled liquid made in Scotland for human ingestion.

Reply to
y_p_w

=============================================================

Yes, I thought of that. What if the gasoline burns off but the oil doesn't. That will lead to an engine squirting Hot Mobil 1 out the exhaust port.

What I want to do is mix 1 milliliter of Mobil 1 to 40 milliliters of gasoline. Then shake it up in a container, and _burn_ it off in an old frying pan ( outside backyard with fire extinguisher handy ), looking for DEPOSITS left behind, especially unburned Mobil 1 either in carbonized form of otherwise.

That's not enough fuel/oil mix to attract anyone's attention, although I must say that Regular 2 cycle mixed with gasoline will produce a smoke bomb and a raging inferno. I did that experiment already. It is almost as good as NAPALM as far as *special effects* goes.

This will help me determine *residue* if any that might be expected in a cylinder burn.

If I get a CLEAN pan, then I can move on to putting some small amount into the fuel lines.

I don't want any caramelized deposits, or left over lube. That comes after I determine whether or not the stuff is miscible in the first place ( I think that means mixable ).

One very frustrating thing about all of this, is that even if the engine survive and/or thrives on the *mix,* other pieces of

*homeowner-grade* yard machines are made out of plastic, and you're lucky to get the tool to last one season before something breaks and/or flies apart. What good a solid engine if what it is attached to is chinese shit plastic?

This is one way I end up with a lot of engines in running shape ( some are, some aren't ) that are all dressed up with nowhere to go.

The important thing I'm looking for is no cumulative build up of caramelized-partially-burned lube. As at the rpm's these things work at, they would stall out or worse in a minute or two max, I recon.

The other consideration is that because of the super high rpm's these engines operate at, and the high temps they operate at, you're lucky to get a few ( 3 ) seasons out of the _engine_ using *regular* 2 cycle oil. Henceforth, the attempt to fly on synthetic 2 cycle.

Thinking about this, I might just save myself the EXPENSE and RISK and go to the store and buy 2-cycle synthetic, seeing that the stuff is available on the store shelves, or so it is said. Why risk it?

Lg

Reply to
Lawrence Glickman

BEFORE "synthetic" oil took the stage, Castrol had a track record that

mesmerized the oil buying public to a large extent,

how does Castrol oils - stack-up in to-day's market place?

mho v=83e

Reply to
fiveiron

SADLY, far too much of that liquid made for human ingestion is now made with neutral spirits produced on continuous-feed distillation columns just like gasoline.

--scott

Reply to
Scott Dorsey

Are you sure about that? I know there's a whole lot of liquor produced in the world that uses up to 50% grain neutral alcohol (i.e. cheap tequila). Supposedly the only things that can be added to Scotch whisky are water (to bring down the strength) and caramel color. Some purists look at the added color and chill filtering as "cosmetic" and possibly detracting from the quality of the final product. Chill filtering involves cooling whisky until particles crystalize and then filtering. Otherwise, the whisky can turn cloudy when mixed with cold water or ice.

Reply to
y_p_w

When I was working in a scooter shop we used Optimol 'Opti-2' oil. This stuff mixes at 50% of your normal 2 stroke oil and radically boosts the power and engine life.

One liter or 34 oz would mix with 25 US gallons or 100 liters or basically 100 to 1.

Their advertising at the time said they would double the warranty on any engine using it from day one.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail >
Reply to
Mike Romain

Take a look at a LOT of the Scotch blends. You'll see some of them have huge amounts of neutral spirits added. It's actually difficult to find a blend today that is all pot-distilled. Glen Salen is one of them.

Even some of the Irishes are like that. Tullimore Dew is something like

25% neutral spirit.

--scott

Reply to
Scott Dorsey

Yes, the Scots have a knack for making the best of what they have to work with.

In many cases, anyway...Had a Burns evening which ended up with a bottle of Laphroig being opened. Good gosh!

Reply to
<HLS

First time I tried Laphroaig 10 I though it tasted like medicine. Of course I now enjoy taking my medicine. ;-)

Is it effective as a fuel-injector cleaner?

Reply to
y_p_w

No doubt...And if you soak your timbers in it, they will withstand years of exposure to the sea...

If you are ever in Scotland, you should take the whiskey trail tour.. There are more little Scotch enterprises in the highlands than you can stagger away from.;>)

Reply to
<HLS

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