When 6 speeds are not enough...

There's even a 9-speed automatic:

Are 8- and 9-speed automatics being developed because CVTs aren't working out as well as hoped?

basically, yes. but for sales, not mechanical reasons.

cvt's work great - they're reliable and extremely economic. unlike the rest of the planet however, [of course], /we/ won't buy cvt's because /we/ want "real shifting". so /we/ end up paying through the ass for complexity and reliability nightmares.

[if you look back through the old press releases prior to the usa release of the honda fit, they were going to make a special version of their cvt [which they sell to the rest of the world] with electronically programmed "shift points" in it. if you know about cvt's and their advantages, you'll know this is an UTTERLY retarded concept. anyway, honda ended up with a conventionally geared auto for the usa market, and the car has been a huge success.

it's also worth noting that the 96-2000 civic hx auto had cvt. it used to give mpg's in the 50's highway. there were some initial problems with the driveaway clutch, but the cvt part of those transmissions have proven good for 300k miles on up.]

I've had relationships with two vehicles with a CVT - a Saturn Vue (mine) and a Ford Freestyle (my Father's). I didn't "miss" the missing shift points, but the behavior is strange to people used to conventional automatics and manuals. The disconnect between the engine speed and the vehicle speed is disconcerting. You get used to it, but it is weird someone used to "normal" transmissions.

Unfornately GM completely screwed up the CVT in the Vue and my son managed to kill it at around 50k miles (but it was fixed under the extended warranty). The ZF unit in the Freestyle was much better (no mechanical problems) but Ford stopped selling them and went to a 6 speed automatic instead. I assume this was becasue of Customer dissatisfaction with the CVT behavior.

At least in the Saturn Vue, the CVT provided better performance and fuel economy than either the 5 speed manual or the automatic. Too bad GM screwed up the reliability. Even before my Son killed it, I had taken it in for a couple of transmission related recalls. After it was fixed under warranty, I dumped the car.

Ed

basically you have to simulate the conventional engine sounds AFTER soundproofing the cage (same issue as on hybrids aka prius)

probably way too much hassle(=expense) for automakers to fix.

easier to ditch it and try another way, can you spedd DSG?

And you miss the slipping clutch sensation now?

Well it has been a few years since I dumped the Vue and my Mother totaled the Freestyle. The Vue was a lot more obviously different in operation than the Freestyle. Whereas the Vue would immeadiately rev the engine to a scream when you floored the accelerator and then let the vehicle speed catch up, the Freestyle sort of sped up the engine more slowly, so you had an illusion of a relationship between increasing engine speed and increasing vehicle speed. It was just a more pleasant implementation.

Ed

How are CVTs for handling 300 or 400 HP?

which, from an engineering perspective, is precisely what it /should/ do when you floor it. the transmission has the ability to _perfectly_ match ratio to the available power - it's insane not to do so.

marketing-driven stupidity - from an engineering perspective, that's completely ridiculous. if they spent the money on driver ed that they do on the stupid marketing "focus group" driven bullshit, then maybe americans could learn to take advantage of a cheap reliable transmission system that the rest of the planet seems to be able to cope with just fine. and which saves them gasoline too.

i dunno. how are cvt's for handling thousands of tons of materials getting transported up grades on conveyor belts? that's where cvt's came from. whether or not you want your cvt to handle 800hp simply depends on how much you want to spend. just like any other transmission.

.

I'm not sure which part of "It was just a more pleasant implementation." his memo was lost on you.

freestyle hardly provides decent noise insulation and thusly vue-like throttle calibration would've been ridiculous.

though a problem like that was solved ages ago with a sport-slug flip switch introduced waaaaay back when slushboxes solidified

now some cages have slog-sport-supersport 3 position switch i guess there have to be slog-sport-supersport-jimbeam on CVT equipped vehicles that turns off internal combustion and launches car solely on electric motor in the latter incantation

what part of "engineering perspective" and "the transmission has the ability to _perfectly_ match ratio to the available power" is lost on you? [rhetorical]

driveling nonsense. and only a retard would call an automatic transmission "a slushbox".

The Freestyle was actually a very quiet car, although full throttle acceleration was not what I'd call quiet by Mercury Grand Marquis standards (i.e., under hard acceleration it was quieter than my Mother's new Highlander, noiser than her old GrandMarquis, but under cruise it was close to the Grand Marquis, and quieter than the Highlander). I have no idea if the transmission was calibrated solely for minimizing noise or not. For sure the V6 in the Freestyle had a lot more torque than the Vue's 4 cylinder, so I imagine it might have made more sense to modulate the engine speed in a more relaxed manner than the way the Vue did it. As I remember the Vue (and it has been over 5 years), when you floored the Vue, the engine speed jumped up, but there was a pause while the transmission caught up. For the Freestyle, the acceleration started immeadiately as the engine speed increased. I thought it was a better implementation.

Ed

as a consumer used to conventional autos, and not used to cvt's. as an engineer, i want the engine to rev according to my pedal position, /then/ let the transmission do its cvt thing.

that's the key

spoken by someone who designs and sells cvts for living I'm sure

like snipping context to change meaning? that's perfectly kosher!

it beats designing and selling burgers for a living.