Ford over Toyota?

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It appears that our beloved brand may be suffering the woes of a toorapid growth. I was afraid this might happen one day.

Reply to
witfal
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Or that Ford is getting better.

Either way, Toyota won 3 of the 8 awards for trucks/SUVs, Honda won 1, and the Michigan 3 won 8.

Reply to
Jeff

Well, we are talking Initial quality here, which means things you've noticed or have gone wrong in the first few weeks of ownership.

But, I was afraid this might happen too. Sometimes, even the best get too big for their britches...

Reply to
Hachiroku

doesnt mean anything

Reply to
GO Mavs

I am not afraid.. I want American companies to succeed....

I will buy the best though. I won't buy American just because I am an American.

Reply to
GO Mavs

Right - Only reports that make Toyota look good count. People that compalin about sludge are liars. The large number of Toyota recalls in recent years are trival. Reports of Camry tramsmissions failing are made up. Tundra engines with seized camshafts are media exagerations. Just repeat - Oh What a Feeling, Moving Forward, This Changes Everything.....Is it Toyotathon Time Yet?

Ed

Reply to
Ed White

I've been watching the definite change in demographics among local Toyota owners. Yet another barometer that is often telling among auto makers.

Reply to
witfal

No, I am just telling you that this means nothing to the industry. It means nothing to me.

I hope all the best for American cars and want to see American cars back on top... but these kind of bullshit surveys mean nothing to me. Absolutely nothing. What matters is true reliability by experience and sales.... the end...

Reply to
GO Mavs

On the contrary. What you as one individual experience on a personal level is nothing more than anecdotal and insignificant. You and your sister could own any particular brand of auto, have zero trouble, and that's all you'dbe. Two people among millions.

OTOH, when thousands to hundreds of thousands of people are surveyed, and tell of their troubles, that begins to mean something. Just so you don't get your panties in a bunch, I'm not pointing the finger at any auto maker. I've owned the spectrum, and have had trouble with them all. The only trouble-free Toyota I've owned is sitting outside right now. A 1995 pickup with no PS or air. Nothing more than tires, brakes, and fluid changes have ever been done on it. It's bulletproof. The 22RE engineis a marvel for what it is.

Again, it's just anecdotal, but I have had friends with similar experienceswith their pre-Tacoma Trucks.

It is now.

Reply to
witfal

This is great news. I would love for Ford or GM to surpass Toyota,. Why wouldn't any American? I'd love to start buying American again, hell, maybe that time is now!

Reply to
ToMh

If these things amount to anything, Toyota will lose business.

So far, their customer loyalty remains very, very good.

GM put crap gaskets in their engines for 10 or more years. After the first couple years, they knew, for sure, without a doubt, that they had a problem (they could see the dealership asking for the parts necessary to fix the cars). What did they do about it? Zip. Not only did they not set up a program to deal with the first year(s) of affected cars, to help those customers and keep them satisfied and coming back to GM, they continued to put crap gaskets into their cars for seven or eight more years.

The result? Many people had to spend hundreds of dollars to fix their engines because the gaskets failed. Then many, many more people had to spend hundreds of dollars to fix their engines because GM didn't do anything about a problem with which they were very, very familiar.

Ford? Hahahahah! You can forget about the SludgeMaster engines in those Toyota Siennas. I know at least 8 people with that motor (most own the Sienna, one owns a Camry - whoops - I know two people with Avalons - same engine, I'll bet, make it "I know at least 10 people..."). NONE have any problems. On the other hand, EVERY Windstar owner I know has ended up unhappy with the reliability of his Windstar and completely pissed off with Ford. The lucky ones had transmissions that failed before reaching 100K miles. The winner's Windstar threw a rod at less than 100K miles. What do you think they're driving today? If you said, "Asian cars," you can give yourself a prize. My brother is a two-time winner of the Ford Screws You Over Prize. His Taurus transmission failed and, like a fool, he replaced the Taurus with a Windstar, which then suffered - you guessed it - transmission failure. Any help from Ford on this? Hahahahaha! What's he driving now? Hahahahah!

My wife's family used to be 100% loyal to Fix Or Repair Daily. They're almost all driving Asian cars, now. Why? Because, one by one, Ford burned them.

By the way, Ford deserves a Design Anti-Prize for what they did to the Windstar when Chrysler started shipping minvans with rear doors on both sides. Do you remember what they did? It was Truly Inspired! They lengthened the driver's door, so people in the back could crawl out through the driver's door on that side, like they used to do with two-door coupes! That way, people could get out on the left! Just as good as a regular rear door but much, much cheaper! Except, of course, for routine getting in and out of the front, the longer door made it more difficult for the driver to get in and out all the time, especially when parked with minimum clearance on the left hand side and crawling out of the back isn't something people typically do with a van (memo to Ford: minivans should be convenient). I'd love to have heard an actual Ford salesman say, "Really, this is just as good as a four-door Chrysler! You'll find it equally convenient!" I'll bet they had some really big rebates on Windstars that year.

Reply to
DH

I'm willing to consider Ford but my wife isn't. She still pissed off about the three transmissions that went into our van in the 2.3 years we owned it.

And I'm willing to consider a Ford only for the right price. I find the reliability ratings of the Escape hybrid to be marginally acceptable and I'd be willing to consider one of those - or maybe a Fusion - but only because a very low price would make them a good value. Long term, I have no faith that an '07 Ford will beat an '07 Toyota for reliability and durability.

Ford winning on Initial Quality is great, more power to them, but they could just be correctly putting substandard parts together into a bad design. That doesn't do much good in the long run.

Reply to
DH

Initial quality does not mean a damn thing. Let's just see how these Fords hold up after 3-5 years.

Reply to
High Tech Misfit

I can remember hearing about how the Focus was good to rent or lease, but not to buy, due to long-term shortcomings.

You don't see nearly as many of them on the road as you did when I first bought my Echo back in 1999.

Natalie

Reply to
Wickeddoll

People that complained about sludge didn't change their oil....

Reply to
Scott in Florida

When Ford builds a car as good as my '92 Corolla Wagon.....I will congratulate them....but won't buy a Ford ever again.

Reply to
Scott in Florida

I want to see them hold up like my '92 Corolla Wagon.

Sooooooooo that means 15 years....

Reply to
Scott in Florida

Unfortunatly for Ford and the other U.S. mfg, their day has passed. The damage has already been done. It will take numerous years to build up the faithful again, if it even happens.

Reply to
dbu,.

Is it "rapid growth", or the fact that they are mostly made in USA now?

Reply to
dizzy

GO Mavs top-posted:

Really? Nothing at all, top poster?

Idiot.

Reply to
dizzy

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