Horsepower cuts embarass Asians

Is that new Honda or Toyota less powerful than last years model? Well, yes, and no. The engines in the new models don't make any less power than last year's engines, even though the numbers
on the specification page are lower. Its just that the Asians have been caught playing the loopholes in the standards, putting in premium gas for horsepower testing while rating annual fuel cost based on regular, tweaking engine controls to non-standard settings, and turning off accessories.
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060313/AUTO01/603130350
Despite the blatant deception, analysts don't expect the kind of backlash against Honda and Toyota that plagued Hyundai several years ago. After being caught redhanded overstating horsepower, Hyundai paid cash compensation to over 800,000 owners. "Honda and Toyota owners aren't like that", said Joseph Camel of the Brand Research Institute. "They're pretty docile owner groups. After all, they bought the idea that its normal maintenance to automatically replace water pumps at 75,000 miles.
Meanwhile, Honda is proposing a new "Effective Horsepower" rating system. "We intended our horsepower ratings to simulate effective horsepower when the vehicles are five years old. Our vehicles lose an average of 46 pounds by that age, meaning better performance" said Honda spokesman Kor Oshon.
Toyota, however, is a hesitant supporter, saying Honda's version of Effective Horsepower penalizes it. Studies show that at age five, the average Toyota loses only 32 pounds due to rust.
Meanwhile, Mitsubishi wants an adjustment for the lower weight of its cars due to parts that fall off within five years. But Nissan wants no part of the Effective Horsepower program, claiming rust is a localized problem, only occurring in the snow belt, near ocean areas, and in places where it rains.
None of the GM and Ford engines that have been tested have shown power losses. Some have shown power gains. For those who critcize Detroit for being stupid, one thing is clear: at least they're smart enough not to lie.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:29:46 GMT, Comments4u

So, um, where is it that cars do NOT rust?

Actually, Mazda (which is owned by Ford) did something similar when they introduced the RX-8, downrating its horsepower to 238 and offering to buy back vehciles from anyone who felt ripped off. And don't forget the big debacle over the 1999 Cobra, which was discovered after owners tested their cars on dynamometers. Ford took so long to find a fix that they cancelled production on the 2000 Cobras. They eventually had to replace exhaust systems and other parts in every 1999 Cobra they produced in order to actually achieve the advertised horsepower.
--
What the heck, I'll play too.
- Dave
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Arizona, for one. Rust is unknown in the Phoenix area except in cars brought in from areas where roads are salted.
Mike
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Waiving the right to remain silent, "Michael Pardee"

Near Tucson, (and in nearby California deserts) there are a couple of airplane graveyards, where thousands of planes sit, virtually rust- free.
--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail

"I've come here to enjoy nature. Don't talk to me
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

How many of those planes are made of steel?
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You'd be amazed at how much of an a/c is made of steel...and most sheet aluminum is actually a sheet of steel covered on both sides with aluminum so where the sheets join with rivets and the edges of the panels there is some small access to the steel. Also aluminum can corrode when exposed to salt and moisture, they do very little corroding in those long term storage facilities...
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

God!...remember while accelerating hard in a driving rainstorm and having to let up on the accelerator for a second so as to get a swipe of the wipers so you can see again?!?...
That's why Phyllis Diller said "Old age ain't for sissies" :)
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I never had to worry about vacuum wipers too much - my 1962 International Scout 4X4 was the only car I ever had with them, probably the last car model in the USA built with them - IH was slow on adopting newfangled things like those unproven electric wipers...
(Nope, upon further research it looks like AMC stayed with vacuum wipers through the 1971 model year. And I thought IH was slow...)
It had a vacuum booster on the fuel pump. They slowed down some when you got on the gas hard, but they didn't stop. Only mattered when the rain was coming down by the tanker-load and you were in heavy traffic where seeing is important...
--<< Bruce >>--
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

My dad had a '67 Ambassador, I think it had the vacuum wipers. I think AMC was an early adapter of unitized construction. My dad loved the car, I wasn't so impressed. The power brakes were so touchy that a tap on the pedal would simulate running into a brick wall, the Reverba-Tone speaker rumbled like thunder any time you went over railroad tracks or washboard bumps, and the LR power window took about 3 minutes to go from the down to the up position, and that was only if you grabbed the glass and pulled it up.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Comments4u wrote: <snip mindless trolling>
your headers say it all there guy.
<snip> Organization: Usenet Education and Entertainment Bureau <snip> Keywords: auto, lie, deception, cheating Summary: Troll X-Funding-Provided-By: The National Endowment for the Arts, Mercury Outboards, and your local PBS Television Station <snip>
detroit is quite capable of shooting itself in the foot without your help.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
jim beam wrote:

Detroit's decades-long obsession with HP -- and NOTHING else -- has made it a worldwide laughingstock when it comes to sports cars.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@winning.com wrote:

so true. i think that every time i massively out-corner a mustang in my 89 civic hatch on my skinny little 185/60-14's. a friend of mine has a seriously rodded mustang, and we went out one day into some hills where there are some nice twisty narrow roads. first, we both went in his. no question, /way/ more power. seriously way more power. then we went in mine. thing is, power doesn't mean squat when you have to brake and corner hard with two wheels in the ditch. after i drove, he wasn't speaking much. then he drove. when we were done, he just got out and threw me my keys and walked away! it took him days to stop sulking. i love civics!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Methinks you friend does not know how to drive. One of my neighborhood kids challenged my stock 2005 Mustang GT convertible to a timed run with his riced up 2006 Civic up over a local six mile mountain road, loaded with hairpin turns where all the locals 'test' their cars . If we had been running for titles I would have yet another car for one of my grand children, if he had the title instead of the bank. LOL
mike

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Wasn't that an unfair competition? RWD vs FWD, real competition experience vs. (probably) none? ;-)
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
More likely it was my 60 some years of driving experience, vis-a-v his 6 or so years I supose. I guess he never heard of the Ford GT 500 that blew the doors off every sports car in Europe, in the sixties
There is no question a RWD vehicle will out handle a FWD vehicle and that is the point. The original poster seem to think otherwise. ;)
mike hunt
>> Methinks you friend does not know how to drive. One of my neighborhood

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mike Hunter wrote:

with respect, that's not the point. /he/ drove /my/ car and [correctly] concluded that it handled better in those conditions. it really doesn't matter how well he was able to drive [although he's not bad] - it's the comparison between cars that counts.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
jim beam wrote:

Having grown up driving Mustangs (now drive something else), the 'Stang can handle just fine in the twisties. You need good shocks and tires. Certainly should be able to outdo a Civic - Mustangs are not that bad in the turns.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Newsgroup User wrote:

that's what my friend thought. he had 5 digits of upgrades into that thing.

you need more than that - you need a good independent rear and decent geometry. my tires are only continental "touring" 185/60-14's. my shocks are only kyb gr2's.

you haven't /driven/ a civic when you say "should".
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
jim beam wrote:

Upgrading what? Engine upgrades won't help squat in the twisties.

Not necessarily. Independent rear will mainly help you on the bumps. But other than that, it helps, but not a huge amount. Pre '99 Cobras posted some impressive skidpad and slalom numbers. Using basically stock Mustang rears. I owned a 97 Cobra - it did fine in the twisties.

By that token, the '87 Escort I used to have should have beat the Stang as well - 4 wheel independent, decent weight, etc....
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Newsgroup User wrote:

i know that! he had torque control tubes, special springs and special shocks on a limited slip rear, springs, shocks and rack & pinion conversion on the front.
motor was a small block 5.0 with extensive mods.

but how much wider are cobra tires???????? the point is, my ratty little civic, with stock spec suspension and stock "si" tires embarrassed the 'stang. if tires alone were the criteria, the civic would be a joke. it's very much not.

escort has mcpherson struts on front so i'm not surprised. mcphersons are great off-road, but they just don't do on-road as well as the civic's wishbones. we also took a subaru wrx out on the same road that same day. it was ok on power, but nothing really special on the bends. not as good as the 'stang or the civic.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.