I flooded my engine

snipped-for-privacy@btelecom.invalid (David ) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@usenet.plus.net:

It is with a carbureted car, but your car has computer-controlled fuel injection. Totally different animal.

The computer is smart enough to sense things a mechanical carburetor is not. This means that it can sense that the engine has NOT fired up, but that the throttle has been pressed to the floor. The programmers have told it to recognize Wide Open Throttle (WOT) and a cranking engine as an attempt at clearing a flooded condition, so it therefore SHUTS OFF the injectors.

That's why WOT clears a flooded condition.

You probably don't have your owner's manual any more, but it says so in there.

Highly unlikely. In fact the deepness of the plugs actually *ensures* that you will put them in without cross-threading, since your angle of attack is more perpendicular to the plug hole than if the plugs were fully exposed.

If you are nervous about cross-threading spark plugs, buy 8 or 12 inches of auto vacuum hose and slip it over the end of the spark plug, twist the hose to start the plug. It's flexibility allows you to reach around bends and the "give" in the hose won't transmit enough force to cross- thread. After you have twisted the spark plug as far as you can with the hose, just yank the hose off and finish tightening with a socket. I wouldn't recommend pulling vacuum hoses off your engine, especially on an older car because the plastic connectors may have become brittle and may crack when pulling a hose off or when re-installing. Vacuum hose is relatively inexpensive and auto parts stores sell it by the inch or by the foot.

Even on a carbureted engine, a WOT would greatly increase the air/fuel ratio wouldn't it? I have always used this method to start carb'd flooded cars, with great success.

Greg.

it may just be one of those things, it may be a weak battery not giving enough spark, it may be knackered plugs or ht gear, it may be an engine coolant temp sender giving a slightly wrong reading, or an ambient air temp sender or a bad connection somewhere.

I have found the best way to get one going after it has become flooded is to pull the fuel pump fuse, then crank it over till it fires up (it will only run for a few moments) give a bit more of a spin with the throttle down, then replace the fuse and try to start as normal.

mrcheerful

I just dug it out, (I throw nothing away!) and you're right - it does address this problem under 'starting a flooded engine'. I had never noticed that section before......

It suggests something similar to your comments above, except:

a) Turn the key to START with the pedal held down for 15 seconds only, and then release them. [More than 15 seconds may overheat the starter]

b) If the engine does not start try starting with your foot off the pedal for 15 seconds only.

c) If the engine does not start, release the key. Wait a few minutes and try again.

d) If not successful, it needs adjustment or repair. Call a Toyota dealer!

I noted nothing there about drying off the plugs - which was my eventual cure. Perhaps that what the dealer does....

It also advises under Normal Starting to keep your foot on the clutch pedal but off the accelerator pedal when cranking.

Yea.. this all goes back to the time I managed to cross-thread a VW bug when fitting a plug (out of sight) where a helicoil insert was starting to emerge.......

On my 3S-GE engine the plugs do sit well down. In fact the Toyota supplied tool is not quite long enough to work easily.

But I do appreciate the ideas supplied by Ray & the others.

David

to begin with ... i don't think you should be touching the throttle when cold starting.

The recovery for flooding is to hold the throttle wide open.

Does this guy ever look at any of the other responses to the OPs' questions before responding or is he ignoring them in hopes that the OP will think his is the first and only correct response?

Responses are all over the ball park. Your response is the same as mine, but provides circuit detail that I opted nto to give, but your reply is not to the OP.

It is difficult to tell which the OP will actually read, so why not keep the answer short and sweet.

The recovery to flooding is to hold the throttle wide open. Have you anything to add?

If you resist the temptation to pump the throttle pedal, then you will increase the air to the point that it eventually mateches the amount of fuel, and the engine will roar to life, then sputter a few times and perhaps die out again. At this point, it should start normally.

That was true when engines had automatic chokes, but that will not work on todays microprocessor controlled engines

mike hunt

Jeff Strickland wrote:

That's not what Ray said.

I thought all the responses I saw basically said the same thing - to hold the throttle wide open and crank, whether carb or EFI or elaborated on that idea.

I did not provide a response since the OP's question was already correctly answered. I respect TeGGeR's automotive knowledge and he certainly doesn't need a confirmation from me to let the OP know that TeGGeR is correct.

I'm a relative usenet newbie. Is my assumption that the OP would read most, if not all, of the responses in a short thread incorrect? Do people who post questions looking for advice just randomly choose which response to read? If there are many responses that basically say the same thing or elaborate or explain the response, will a short and sweet response posted above earlier responses give the OP the reassurance he needs to follow the unanamous advice in the thread?

How about when a response differs or gives incorrect information? If the responses differ, should the OP follow the advice of a current or former professional in the field and the marjoity or the responses or should the OP follow the advice of an amateur or minority response?

Just some questions the OP might want to ask... Should the OP be concerned about what is causing the engine to flood in the first place? What could cause an EFI engine to flood? What is the most likely cause? How would the OP go about determining the cause? Is it better to check out obscure stuff that usually never fails before checking out more likely causes? Should the OP do costly checks before inexpensive checks? Since the car is not that new, can't you just use the wide-open throttle method to start the car and not worry about what is causing it to flood in the first place?

Thanks - blame it on me!

Jeff is correct -(at least for Toyota). Holding the throttle open is the procedure for clearing a flooded engine.

Ray O

How does the OP distinguish between the advice of somebody that has a clue and anybody else?

Two responses at the level I first responded were, don't touch the gas pedal (which the OP already said he knew), and, "it may be one of those things, it may be ... "

He said he used the gas pedal while starting. The OP seemed to know why he had trouble, he seemed a bit confused at how to resolve the problem. Holding the throttle open is the fix he needs.

Yes, you could. That's why I said, "the recovery for a flooded engine is to hold the throttle wide open." I wouldn't keeep harping on this, but you posted once in a reply to the OP, but under the post of a guy that knows what he is doing, and you inferred that I had done something wrong when I said to hold the throttle open.

Perhaps you were not aware that you inferred that I gave an inaccurate response, and you thought you were talking to or about somebody else. But, the point is, you also said that the OP should hold the throttle wide open, then posted that I said something that was somehow wrong when in reality I said the same thing.

I shared your assumption for a very long time, then I noticed that I was not getting all of the posts. Then I had somebody actually tell me that they didn't get all of the posts.

Some servers do not feed all responses through to the clients. If this happened, then the OP would not read all of the responses because he wouldn't get them.

I didn't know that so I learned something new today!

Good question. A regular participant in this group would probably know who to trust and whose advice to take with a grain of salt. A new participant would either have to confirm the information on his or her own through reputable sources or the advice giver could give credentials. "Ray O, Former fifteen year Toyota Motor Distributors employee / former ASE Certified Master Technician / current DIYer" sounds a little lame to me.

With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I suppose a more complete response would have been "don't touch the gas pedal when cranking and if flooded, hold the pedal to the floor while cranking.

To answer my own questions, one should always check out common causes before uncommon causes.

Logic and common sense should tell anyone to do inexpensive and easy checks first.

I doubt if depressing the gas pedal while cranking is the only cause of the OP's flooding problem. More likely, he has a combination of problems that depressing the gas pedal is aggravating. I'd suspect clogged injectors which may be remedied by a can of fuel injector cleaner but may need professional cleaning or replacement and bad or improper spark plugs and high tension wires. He will have much better results with OEM ignition components than with aftermarket components.

Sorry, your advice was correct and any inference that it was not correct was not intentional.