"Laced" gas.

Please tell us you did not purchase anything from this person.

"---MIKE---" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net... I asked a local store why his gas was $.25 higher than the gas in the central part of the state. He said that his gas was not "laced" with methanol like the gas in the central part. I find this hard to believe. I thought that "laced: gas had to be called ethanol and so labelled at the pump. (The store owned said methanol rather than ethanol). He also claimed that the "laced" gas gave 2 MPG less mileage so the extra cost for his gas was evened out by this. Is this possible?

It seems to me that the store owner is confused and trying to justify charging a higher price by repeating bad information. At the very best, he is selling gasoline with 2% more energy per gallon. This doesn't seem to be enough to justify an 8% higher price.

According to the US fuel requirements map (see

), Gasoline dealers in the four counties in the southeast corner of New Hampshire are required to sell reformulated gasoline referred to as Northern RFG w/Ethanol. This gasoline includes around 6% ethanol. This blend will have about 2% less energy per gallon than "standard" gasoline. I doubt you would be able to tell the difference in fuel economy unless you keep very detailed records, and even then I suspect other effects might mask the difference (unless you are driving a really old car with a carburetor). It is not likely that any "modern" car has the mileage affected by 2 mpg. I suppose an older car with a carburetor might have the mixture screwed up enough to affect the mileage by a measurable amount. But any car sold in the US in the last 15 years can handle reformulated gasoline. I am not sure what is considered the central part of New Hampshire, but it looks to me like the dealers in the central, western, and northern portions of New Hampshire are not required to sell reformulated gasoline. Of course, it is possible that they do sell the Northern RFG w/Ethanol blend because of logistics. However, gasoline sold in New Hampshire does not include methanol and never has. Back before 2004, it did include MBTE, but that was banned in many locations, and ethanol is now being used instead in areas that require oxygenated fuels.

See

Ed

Ethanol does not have the same amount of energy, in the same cylinder charge as gasoline, so yes MPG will be less

---MIKE---

My "Bullshit Meter" is pegged so hard it's about to bend the needle.

First, they would more likely be using Ethanol (grain alcohol) and not Methanol (wood alcohol) - which is very poisonous, rather corrosive, and requires special fuel system components to handle safely. You can put an Ethanol blend into older cars without too many problems, but fill anything older than the 1980's with Methanol and it will rip things up on the inside of the fuel tank, hoses, pumps and carburetor. The older rubber blends can't handle it.

The few who do use methanol say they add "co-solvents" to prevent fuel system damage, but they probably bought them from the guy who invented the "500 MPG Carburetor the Oil Companies Bought and Buried". IOW, don't believe everything you read in an advertising brochure - they're trying to sell it, not be honest and objective.

Second, sounds like a load of pure Bullshit. The ethanol and methanol blends both cost more to make because of the higher cost of feedstock agriculture, making, transporting, handling and blending in the alcohol, any additives needed - if anything, all other things being equal his prices (without alcohol) should be lower.

And Third, if the EPA and State says they have to sell an emissions blended gasoline in that region, they have to sell an emissions blended gasoline. There aren't any loopholes I'm aware of for that. If this local store is a dealer of a nationally branded chain, the chain dictates his prices - they tell him how much this load of fuel costs him wholesale, and what price he has to sell it for retail - there might be a few pennies leeway, but he is given a minimum and maximum. Go outside the limits, and he gets no more fuel.

The branded stations all practice "Zone Pricing" against each other, it's a big chess match and the franchised dealers are just pawns in the game. Zone Pricing means the price is higher where the traffic will bear it, at the off-ramps of the Interstates and along main highways where people buy on convenience and not price....

Lower at the back-streets stations with lower operating costs and draw their business from locals who are more 'price sensitive'...

And much higher prices at the rural stations that don't get the traffic and have much higher delivery and service costs. Costs the same per mile (time, wear and fuel) to run the delivery tank truck, so that puts the guy 500 miles from the nearest pipeline and regional terminal (tank farm) at a distinct price disadvantage compared to the stations in larger towns.

And every time the rural station needs the dispensers or equipment repaired they have to pay the technician extra travel time, and often for a second trip to bring the repair parts.

Independent stations face the same pricing pressures - they have to buy their gas at the 'Spot Market' price which may be higher than what the major companies sell the fuel to their branded stations, plus the delivery costs. And they have to mark it up enough to pay the help, the rent, and the power bill.

Some independent chains are big enough, have the capital to invest, and have consistent enough sales they can buy much of their fuel on contract or the Futures Market and control their wholesale prices somewhat. But the true independents have nowhere to store the gas if sales droop.

Last time the Spot Market price for gas spiked through the roof a few years back, one Los Angeles area independent (USA Petroleum) shuttered their stations and furloughed their people - they had to sell for a lot more than the branded station across the street (50c a gallon and more) and people simply weren't buying. Makes no sense to pay someone to sit and watch an empty station.

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Bull. A person can sell the fuel at whatever price he pleases. You want to charge $20 per gallon? Go ahead. How about 0.2 cents? (5 gallons per cent)? Go ahead.

The refinery may not set your price. That would be illegal.

The zone pricing is for the cost of the fuel paid by the station. Obviously, the station has to charge more, like $0.10 plus a few cents for profit. Obviously, if the station is owned by a refinery, the refinery will set the price or at least the price range for the manager. But a lot of stations that sell branded gas are independently owned.

And from locals who are not price sensitive.

Jeff

Might be illegal, doesnt mean it doesnt happen! Hence numerous price-fixing scams across the UK that are currently being prosecuted.

I meant in the US. I don't know what happens in the UK.

Jeff

I suspect, as good as the US is, you aren't immune to a little "supply it at this price or you might find you get none or "it costs you more than your neighbours sale price next time".

Immune or not, that would be against the law.

Jeff

I sense we are going round in circles here. ;-)