Motorists vs traffic cameras

I'll agree up to that point.

And that's what's wrong with law enforcement today. I don't know a single person who doesn't get more nervous when a cop is around instead of more relaxed, and I don't hang out with criminals either.

nate

64

In NJ and PA, the law is that if you can safely stop when there is a yellow light, you are supposed to stop. Obviously, that is a judgment call.

In PA, for speed limits less than 60 mph, the judge may not find you guilty unless you are going 10 mph over the speed limit or 5 mph for speed limits over 55 mph.

In PA, if you're exceeding the speed limit in a construction zone, even only going 1 mph over the limit, the judge may find you guilty (i.e., the above limitations don't apply).

Unfortunately, there are too many deaths of road construction workers.

A lot of people seem to think of road safety rules as inconveniences, but lives *do* depend on them just like those pesky safety rules for construction workers building skyscrapers are important (e.g., wearing helmets, wearing safety harnesses so that workers don't fall to their deaths, no smoking around chemicals like gasoline). Personally, I like have a pulse, so I wear my seat belt when I drive, I rarely use a cell phone and stick to the speed limit (more or less).

Jeff

Some of them are, some of them have a purpose.

No, only some of them.

I'm betting on "more" if you're anything like the vast majority of road users.

*MOST* rules of the road are there for a reason - stopping for a red light or stop sign, yielding to those with the right of way, signaling, keeping right except to pass, etc. all serve a purpose and should be obeyed at all times.

Unfortunately, "gotcha" tactics like RLCs at intersections with short yellows, "construction zone" speed limits in areas where no work is being performed, speed limits 15 MPH or more below the 85th percentile speed of a road, etc. etc. etc. erode respect of motorists for the law - INCLUDING those that are actually there for safety.

nate

In our area they're teaching new drivers something called "the point of no return". You pick a spot about 40 feet from the stop line and once you go through that spot, even if the light turns yellow then you go on through, cautiously. That prevents someone jaming on the brakes at the last second and getting rear ended. Makes the decision of whether to stop or go through an intersection less stressful.

This is nothing. You want to worry about cameras? The best is yet to come.

China's All-Seeing Eye With the help of U.S. defense contractors, China is building the prototype for a high-tech police state. It is ready for export.

On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 08:03:07 -0700 (PDT), Ron Peterson cast forth these pearls of wisdom...:

That's naive.

Are you sure you aren't thinking of the time they busted the myth about using "clever" methods to fool hand-held radar guns? Nothing they tired worked, including covering the vehicle in tin-foil.

Maybe that's because there is really no need for them to signal. If someone is going past you and then changing lanes after they are 100 feet a head of you and leaving you in the dust why do you need to see their rear lights flash? It's people who are ahead but slower that need to signal because it is those people who will be interfering with the ones coming from behind.

The article states: George Dunham, a village trustee in Schaumburg, says installing the red-light camera at the mall "wasn't about the revenue -- no one will believe that, but it wasn't."

-- Ron

Trust me, when they are weaving in between cars with only 20 ft of space there, they need to signal. Either way, it's the law. The law applies even when the roads are empty.

No, not about hand held radar guns, "myth busters" was definitly showing you couldn't hide your licence plate from a traffic camera.

In PA, if you're exceeding the speed limit in a construction zone, even only going 1 mph over the limit, the judge may find you guilty (i.e., the above limitations don't apply).

Unfortunately, there are too many deaths of road construction workers.

A lot of people seem to think of road safety rules as inconveniences, but lives *do* depend on them just like those pesky safety rules for construction workers building skyscrapers are important (e.g., wearing helmets, wearing safety harnesses so that workers don't fall to their deaths, no smoking around chemicals like gasoline). Personally, I like have a pulse, so I wear my seat belt when I drive, I rarely use a cell phone and stick to the speed limit (more or less).

Jeff

*********** There was no one working in the construction zone I had passed through (Sunday), but it is also more serious here if you are ticketed within an active construction zone.

I had actually left the zone and was in a 70 mph zone when I was stopped. I was going downhill with my cruise control at 70 but was strobed at 75 mph. Normally this would not get you a ticket in Texas, although technically I appeared to be guilty of a 5 mph overspeed.

I got deferred adjudication, which means this cannot be used against me for insurance, etc.

Whether or not you consider them unsafe, these speeds are very much in excess of the law. And since this puts them at a 25-30 mph differential over specified traffic speeds, yes, they tend to be dangerous. These people typically weave back and forth across 5-6 lanes of traffic, not signalling, and do create a signicant hazard.

I can't remember the last time I drove on a highway where most traffic wasn't going over the speed limit; driving at the speed limit would put you at a greater speed differential to the main flow than driving 25 over.

nate

Here's a theory we can discuss to death: Things are not the same everywhere.

I'm basing my comments on having driven just about all over the east coast.

nate

True, but keeping with traffic is safer in probably 99.9% of the cases. Slow drivers can be a hazard. Couple of years ago I wanted to check my fuel mileage by driving the same spot at different speeds. Posted speed limit was 65. At 55, I feared for my life and chose to speed up again to a more normal speed. I'd normally cruise at 70 and go past the radar a couple of times a week like that.

I agree, actually. I'm just pointing out that people in this discussion are describing very different driving environments. I drive quite a bit on the NY State Thruway in Western NY, where the limit is mostly 65 mph. I occasionally see people doing 80+, but for the most part, 70-ish is the norm. On the other hand, when I lived in Long Island and commuted all over the NY metro area, and when (rarely) there weren't traffic jams, it wasn't unusual for all the traffic to be doing 75+ in a 55 zone, so close together that the cars seemed like they were linked together. Going slower was not an option.

Slow is not necessarily safe, and fast is not necessarily unsafe, I give you. Some drivers are unsafe at any speed.

A few weeks ago I came home from Houston just as the heavy weather was blowing in. I passed 12 major accidents in 50 miles, because people would not slow down in the heavy rain. I was running 55-65, as conditions allowed, but was being passed by all sorts of vehicles (most with their lights not turned on) at much higher speeds.

People here tend to hug the center lane, which is not legal but is understandable in heavy rain as the crown holds less water than the outer lane.

The bottom line, for me, is that many Texans are neither trained well as drivers, they do not tend to adhere to safety rules and the state laws, and they tend to be aggressive and inconsiderate. I try to be nontypical of those charges, but make my mistakes as well.