OT: Kids vs Grownups

Kids: Bush Says He Supports Iraqi Leader "And it's not up to the politicians in Washington, D.C., to say whether he will remain in his position," Bush said. "It is up to the Iraqi people who now live in a democracy and not a dictatorship."

Grownups: U.S. officials rethink hopes for Iraq democracy But for the first time, exasperated front-line U.S. generals talk openly of non-democratic governmental alternatives, and while the two top U.S. officials in Iraq still talk about preserving the country's nascent democratic institutions, they say their ambitions aren't as "lofty" as they once had been. "Democratic institutions are not necessarily the way ahead in the long-term future," said Brig. Gen. John "Mick" Bednarek, part of Task Force Lightning in Diyala province, one of the war's major battlegrounds. The comments reflect a practicality common among Western diplomats and officials trying to win hearts and minds in the Middle East and other non-Western countries where democracy isn't a tradition.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom
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Would a nice tidy theocracy make you happier, JSB?

Reply to
Sean Elkins

It wouldn't make me any happier than Joe, but it's going to happen eventually. Watch and see.

Reply to
witfal

You never saw me say that. If you disagree, point out the words.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

LOL!! There goes our lap dog AH again.

Reply to
dbu`

David Gergen, a former adviser to four presidents, says Bush stirred up a hornet's nest among historians. "By invoking Vietnam he raised the question, if you learned so much from history, how did you ever get us involved in another quagmire?" Gergen told CNN.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Of course you didn't say it...you just implied it.

I've read enough of your posts to understand your glee at anything that would further damage or smear GWB. The fact that you posted this at all (plus labeling GWB as a 'kid') is all the evidence needed to make this inference.

Reply to
Sean Elkins

In that case, you must think Brig. Gen. Bednarek also wants a theocracy in Iraq.

Or, you might consider the idea his comments to mean that he is being realistic. Tell me what YOU think about his comments.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Really Mr. Gergen, you should recall that GWB doesn't remember all that much of the Vietnam war, thanks to certain substances, liquid and powder, which he poured down his throat and sniffed up his nose during that conflict, while trying very hard to avoid serving in that ill-starred war....and succeeded quite admirably in doing do. One would think, however, that he might have read about it somewhere, but alas, he's not much of a reader, except for children's books involving goats.

Reply to
mack

I think he's a career military man, which means he's used to the efficiency and reactiveness of an autocratic chain of command. It's no surprise he would favor instituting such a system in a dysfunctional country like Iraq.

Since you asked my opinion, here it is: he's speaking out of frustration and thinking tactically rather than strategically. I suspect he just wants to go home and doesn't give a tinker's dam about what happens there once he's gone.

Here's a question for you: why did you post this? The overall intent of the original post was to denigrate Bush (else why call him a 'kid' or even mention him at all) and not just to pass along information. Since Bush is public enemy #1 to you, and having Iraq become an Islamic theocracy would be the ultimate humiliation to GWB, that's why I think you are hoping for that ultimate outcome. Anything's good, as long as it makes GWB suffer.

Reply to
Sean Elkins

I would ***LOVE*** to see democracy everywhere. But, here's the deal: When you cling to an idea the way some people obsess about a religion, you become blind to reality. Gen. Bednarek is not clinging to the idea because he sees the reality every day.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

It seems reality is pretty darned subjective these days. Every single soldier I've met who's been in Iraq tells me that almost nothing that's reported by the media is even close to the truth of what's going on on the ground. TO A MAN they have told me not to believe anything I see on TV.

Read that last paragraph critically: there's only one sentence that's an actual quote from the General, and the sentence by itself doesn't reflect the tone of the ones that precede or follow it. It was the journalist who constructed the meaning of that paragraph, not the General.

I wonder what all of the other sentences that aren't quoted said? And I wonder what specific form of non-democratic rule the General had in mind. Do you know?

Reply to
Sean Elkins

Some Iraqi veterans have expressed their views in this column:

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My brother says the level of violence varies greatly by area, but the causualty rate has not improved markedly.

Reply to
Johnny Hageyama

Veterans views:

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Reply to
F.H.

You pegged him and so many OTHER LIEbrawls/DEMONrats so very accurately. Many of them would LOVE for more terrorist atrocities to happen on U.S. soil just so they could try to blame them on GWB. All the DEMONS care about is getting elected, no matter WHAT the cost.

Reply to
sharx35

Those terrorists are all conservatives. Why would liberals want conservatives to win?

Reply to
Johnny Hageyama

I know. The Taliban, for example, exemplify values contrary to those of almost any political group in the West--liberal OR conservative.

Reply to
sharx35

How many soldiers have you heard this from, and what are their relationships to you?

It doesn't matter "what other kind". It is not our business to install governments in other countries. It's called "state building", something Bush (in his ignorance of language) said we shouldn't be involved with.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

dead link.

When did your brother say that?

Reply to
dbu`

LOL. vets against the war, yea ok.....

Reply to
dbu`

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