OT: Tax Rebate I'm rich, I'm rich! I'm fabulously wealthy !

I will try to make this slightly on topic by telling you whats on my wish list.

Splurge in the home tv shopping network=).

-I like the electronic pest repellers "and say goodbye to chemicals" Remember one poster who reported that his 07 camry had a faulty VSC due to small animals munching at the wires;

-fabric steamers that is as good as the professional dry cleaner, you can use it on your cars upholstery as well;

-and pops-a-dent for instant DIY dent repair, even if I dont have a dent, I know it will come in handy

Habitat for Humanity

Mack, this may be the first thing we have agreed on in a LONG time!

Bush had mentioned something about this when the news of the "Credit Crunch" first broke (or, at least, when it started to affect the rest of the world...)

This would make the most sense: hold interest rates at the initial rate until the economy strengthens again. Think of what this would do: it would keep a glut of houses off the market, thereby helping the housing market regain some of it's losses; it would help the people with the loans not only to keep their homes, but also allow them to buy the appliances, furniture, etc they need to make a house a home. This strategy made the most sense in both the short and long terms.

No wonder they gave up on it...

I would also slap fines on those accused of preditory loan practices that enticed these people to take the loan in the first place. "Well, the initial rate is low, and may rise, but by that time your home will be worth more, and you can get some equity from it."

I'm certainly middle class, and we simply used the last rebate for assisting in paying the income tax that year. It went out of the govmint's left hand and immediately back to them in their right hand.

Seven billion bucks is a drop in the bucket where the market is concerned. This shouldn't have made even a ripple.

tax cut/rebate stimulus plan.

Not really. It solves the problem neatly for folks who CAN afford their present payment, and only lengthens the time it takes to pay it off.

True, if they can't afford the initial lower payment, but if they could initially afford it, they ought to be able to keep up the same payments for a longer time.

That's another wrinkle in the system. There ought to be federal legislation preventing the loans from being sold in packages to other lenders. So if you get a loan from ABC bank, you pay them and only them for the next 30 years.

Not really. Most realtors are more or less honest, but some will do or say anything to make the sale. In these cases they encourage the buyer to fudge the facts of his income in order to qualify, and in too many loans, simple checks like W-2 stubs or other proofs of income were ignored, and the realtors involved abetted the buyers in faking income.

Savvy means you know what you're signing, and being aware of what interest rate you're paying and how much it can increase. Most folks suckered into getting ARMs thought that it might mean an additional few bucks in interest, not hundreds of dollars per month. Thus, they were NOT savvy.

People are now being made uncomfortably aware that house prices are not permanently going upward, and there is such a thing as a housing slump, in which the reverse is true.

Actually, no. First, we're the government.

Second, it resulted in less money for the government. So the we had to borrow that money.

Seven billion bucks? Yeah, it will make a ripple. However, I got my value wrong. That was the loss. Far more (in the tens of billions of dollars) worth of stock and options were involved.

Really? If they can't afford the payment later, it only delays things.

Yet, they're getting further and further behind.

The loans were made on untenable assumptions, but the people who made and sold the mortgages to someone else didn't care.

Nothing wrong with reselling loans. That's is one of the things that made homes truly affordable to people who could pay back the loans. Freddy Mac and Sallie Mae are two companies that buy those loan packages.

A lot of small banks, S&Ls and credit unions do keep and service their own loans. And guess what? Only rarely do these homes go into foreclosure or do the homeowners have trouble paying back the loans.

IMHO, the legislation needs to be made to require standards for these loans be met before they can be resold. Otherwise, the capital from ABC bank is tied up for 30 years.

Please provide evidence that the realtors did this rather the mortgage folks.

And what about the people who were lied to or had their signatures forged?

There have been housing slumps before. And, in the past, when other things had prices that ballooned up, the prices burst before, like the prices of companies like Enron and many tech firms.

I have been comfortably aware that the value of houses can go down and that I should not get home equity loan for things that I don't need. The home equity loan means that I could lose my house if I don't pay.

Jeff

Oh come on, this is pap for second graders. To me (and to many people) the government is the enemy...and a downright incompetent enemy too.

that's right, so it did all the good a pinch of monkey excrement would do.

You still think seven billion is a large amount? check out the dollar volume of a day's worth of trading on the NYSE and NASDAQ. It's a drop in a very large bucket.

I don't get your reasoning. If they are employed, and are able to make the monthly nut presently, and they continue to be employed, at relatively the same earnings volume, why should they not be able to afford the same payment for 30-35-40 more years? (They will also probably be in a higher earnings bracket by then, as well, so the mortgage payment is that much MORE affordable.

And what were these assumptions ? other than perhaps their rich uncle either didn't die or lost his money, or disinherited them?

Two out of hundreds who never made the initial loan.

And what's wrong with that? It means the bank that made the initial loan still services it, and didn't sell it off in a package to XYZ bank or another RE syndicate.

Just one example - my wife was until recently a realtor, and sold new homes. She left one tract simply because she knew that other reps in that sales office were playing fast and loose with buyers' loans, and didn't want any part of it. Didn't want to have any guilt by association when the hammer fell. Are you telling me that realtors all have halos, just like used car salesmen? There are bad apples in every endeavor, and just because they wear a large "R" in a pin on their label, it doesn't mean they wouldn't cut your throat to get a nickel out of it. Same goes for doctors, dentists, lawyers, police chiefs, etc etc.

When did they find out they were lied to, and did they sign papers "in blank" to be filled in later? And if their names were forged, they have a perfect right to sue and rescind the sale. There ARE laws you know.

Lots of folks seemed to think the end price for their home was the sky, and so a nice li'l home equity loan to buy a cigarette boat or SUV was made for them.... but a little prudence goes a long way ...as they've found out to their dismay.

Seriously true. If the government really wanted to make a dent in the economic mess in which their fraudulent Federal Reserve Board has complied, they would be suspending the entire amount of income tax paid by families earning under 100K per year. Above that amount the tax liability should be tiered up to 250K, with those above that getting no break.

That would actually stimulate spending in the country.

Instead, they piece-meal the pennies to the weak-minded, convincing them that they really do have our best interests at heart.

For the record, I'd be in the tiered category, so no accusations can be made as to motive.

Exactly. I personally would rather see the $150B go to bailing people out who fell for these schiesters (and perhaps get a good chunk of change BACK from these people!) than see it squandered. At least if people keep their homes the money will come back in the long run in the form of taxes.

I never heard anyone who knew what he was talking about suggest the Federal Reserve Board is "fraudulent." Do you have any evidence?

Why these amounts? Don't middle class people use services, too?

A question: Do you believe the Fed is part of the government?

Arbitrary. You pick a different number, but remember the refund they're offering is also tiered. Not everyone will get it.

Why should these people be helped? Why not help people in public housing buy their own housing or build the infrastructure, like repair bridges? This will give people jobs and do needed work. Why should we (and I do mean "we", for we are the government) bail out the people who made bad choices? The people who were good choices, like a fixed-rate mortgage, only to have the paper change after signing it, I can see helping them, but why the people who showed poor judgment?

The Mayor of NYC even suggested building the infrastructure this with the govenator.

I couldn't agree more. Why do we need to bail out someone who bought more than they could afford? No one put a gun to their head to sign that ARM.

They same mentality exists among those who are nearly having a financial orgasm over the government giving them back THEIR MONEY in the form of a tax rebate. It's your money, not the government's, and they're the ones inflicting upon us the damage of their mis-management.

"Can I afford this?"

"SURE!!!! Your payment will be $650 a month for the first 2 years. After that it's a variable rate, but I bet the Fed will continue to lower interest rates, so your rate won't go up that much. I'd say at the end of two years, the rate may go up 1 point, making your payment $750. That's not a lot considereing the house you're buying and the equity you'll get from it. Shoot, in two years your home will be worth so much you can borrow againt the equity you'll have at a lower rate. Rest assured, you'll get your money back!"

But what REALLY happened was the way the mortgages were written, and the way the interest rates and the market played out, there WASN'T any equity (like there really WOULD be after only two years?!) and the rate the mortgagers were charging almost DOUBLED! So, instead of a $750 payment, the payment was $1250!!!

This is like going into a used car dealer and being told, this car has such low miles, you'll be able to sell it for double what I'm charging you, and then finding out after buying it it has a blown head gasket.

The irony of the current tax refund to STIMULATE the economy, as proposed by the Administration is, with the exception of the $300 per child, the $600 per person refund and the $12,000 for those filing jointly, can not be a larger amount than one actually paid in taxes. Since the Bush tax RATE cuts for everyone, nearly 49% of American households do not pay ANY federal taxes. As a result the Dims in the Senate want amend the House bill to also give the same amount of tax money to everyone including those that did NOT pay any taxes all, in a effort to STIMULATE the economy.

Ever since the Bush tax RATE cuts went into effect, the DIMS have been saying the cuts hurt the economy and adversely effected the budget balance, when in fact the income to the federal treasury actually INCREASED EVEERY quarter since then, up to the last quarter of 2007. Could it be that 2008 is an election year that all of a sudden tax cuts for everyone is a GOOD thing? LOL

Do you think people actually care? Ask ten people how much tax they paid to the federal government or their state government or their local government and ten out of ten will not know the amounts. Some will even answer, NONE I got a refund LOL