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Maybe you should just go to an oil change shop if you live in an apartment. That way the oil gets disposed of properly and does not damage the environment. Seems like a lot of effort to buy jacks and torque wrench just for an oil change. I have owned my Camry for over 9 years and have never had to do any repairs underneath the car, nor have I ever needed a torque wrench.

No, I don't have to see it. In fact if I hear any more about car jacks I am going to puke.

I thought you didn't shop at Wal-Mart for political reasons, or is that just ExxonMobil?

I happened to be at Sam's yesterday and looked at the Michelin jack. It has a nice heavy frame, but I don't think I would want to have to pick it up and place it in the trunk or carry it up and down stairs on a regular basis. What I was not so impressed with is the way that the metal piece that the rear casters are attached to is attached to the jack's frame. Instead of a continuous weld where it is attached to the frame, it is only tacked on with

2 or 3 spot welds.

When it comes to jacks and jack stands, in general, all other things being equal, heavier is better, but there are also good quality light weight jacks available, but they tend to be more expensive. Light weight jacks that are more easily transported are sometimes referred to as "racing jacks" and while they are more expensive, they are sturdy, reliable, and much easier to pick up than a heavy cast iron jack.

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Yeah, I've seen those racing jacks. They're made of aluminum and are really nice. You don't have to worry about me, though. I weight lift regularly, so picking up that heavy iron Michelin jack at Sam's Club will be no problem for me. Anyway, I'll use my mechanics creeper to haul the jack to the car.

As for the spot welding of the castor wheels, hopefully that won't be a problem since the jack is rated at 3.5 tons, and the '06 Camry LE 4-cylinder is barely 1.5 tons, less than half the jack's rating.

I'll do a little more shopping around, but unless I find something better, it'll be the Michelin at Sam's.

What accounts for this schism between shops that use torque wrenches to tighten the lug nuts of rotated tires and shops that use impact wrenches with torque bars to tighten the lug nuts to their final torque?

Which is better for the customer? Is there a greater chance of not torquing all 5 or 6 lug nuts to the same, identical torque when using an impact wrench with torque stick/bar?

As I mentioned recently, the tech at my Toyota dealer did not use a torque wrench.

Schism? Yes, this is clearly one the major issues facing the world today.

I wouldn't call the difference in techniques or equipment a "schism."

As I've mentioned before, a torque stick needs some skill and attention to use properly, while a torque wrench requires less skill to use properly. Torque sticks are relatively expensive, so technicians that don't have a lot of money to invest in tools are less likely to invest over $300 in a set of torque sticks if they already have a torque wrench.

It is not necessary to have all of the lug nuts at the same identical torque because a wheel is not so malleable that a difference of 5 foot pounds will warp the wheel or brakes. In a production environment, torque sticks in the hands of someone skilled in their use or a calibrated impact gun will provide perfectly satisfactory results. For example, when the wheels are installed at the factory, they are not tightened with a torque wrench.

While technicians should not be tightening lug nuts with an impact gun without any kind of torque limiting, using a torque wrench or torque stick should be fine.

Thanks for the reassurance, Ray O. "Auto Upkeep" agrees with you, saying lug nuts can be tightened with an impact wrench fitted with a torque stick or a torque wrench.

The tech wasn't using a regular impact wrench/gun. His tool was electric/automatic but it looked like a silver ratchet with a long extender bar. Didn't look anything like the regular impact guns/wrenches, which look like drills.

Guess what I saw today. An '08 Camry Solara SLE coupe being displayed in the lobby of Sam's Club. I popped the hood and saw that the oil filler cap has 5w-20 written on it /and/ 0w-20.

Some of the Denso parts were made in Japan and other Denso parts made in Tennessee. The oil pump was made in Tennessee; couldn't tell where the water pump located directly below it was made. At least I think that was the water pump. It had a small hose running out of it to the radiator and a small heater hose running into the water pump from the heater core.

The large radiator hoses didn't pass through the water pump, unlike what "Auto Upkeep" says. Instead the upper radiator hose went directly to the radiator from the engine, and the lower radiator hose went directly from the radiator to the engine. It seems only the heater core hoses connected to the water pump, if I'm interpreting things right. The same setup is in my '06 Camry LE. This differs from what "Auto Upkeep" says, which is: "The lower hose connects to the water pump." I wonder if I'm misinterpreting what I saw.

Anyway, it was a very nice Solara. No plastic wheel covers. All metal. The rate of tread wear on the Michelin tires was only rated at 400, unlike my Camry's 460 ;-) Well, at least, I got the better tires.

Say, I've scratched the front passenger-side plastic wheel cover while parking, so I'm thinking of getting a new set. Do you think I should stick to the silver color like the originals or change to the shiny chrome covers? The car itself is silver (lunar mist metallic). Do you all think chrome hubcaps/wheel covers would look good on it? I don't want to drop $30 or $40 and find that the chrome covers look gauche.

Can only speak for myself here. I don't and will not use torque sticks because I have heard enough horror stories from those that did use them about wheels coming loose/off even though they diligently calibrated their impact guns as the instructions said to, to not want to risk it. The day that I get too lazy to use a torque wrench is the day I should hang it up.

A good quality torque wrench.

There is a good chance of not achieving the correct torque.

Besides pneumatic, there are electric impact wrenches, which are easier to calibrate than pneumatic ones.

The oil pump is not visible from outside the engine. The water pump may or may not be visible, depending on engine design.

Yes, you are misinterpreting what you saw. Radiator hoses on modern Toyotas run from the block to the radiator.

Appearance is a matter of personal taste. Get what looks good to you.

Looking in the oil row of Sam's Club, I saw

5-gallon pails of 10w-20 universal /Tractor/ hydraulic and transmission oil for $30, which comes to $1.50 a quart. I mention this in case some of our tractor friends think $1.50 is a good price.

I also saw a dozen rolls of blue shop towels from Scott for $15.86. Each roll is 41 square feet (55 sheets). That's a darn good price and beats sister-store Walmart's $1.77 per roll of 55 sheets (slightly larger 43.6 square feet per roll).

Everybody else wants at least $2 per roll for Scott's blue shop towels.

Correction: the Michelin floor jack at Sam's will raise to the height of the chassis in just one pump of the lever, not to its full height of 22 inches.

Anyhow, great deals at Sam's Club.

So a good compromise is to tighten the lug nuts to between 20 and 40 ft-lbs. with the wheel up in the air, then lower the wheel down to the ground and finish incrementally torquing to the manufactuerer suggested value.

(For automatic transmission vehicles, Park should be sufficient to lock the front wheels from turning, parking brake should be sufficient to lock the rear wheels from turning.)

You've got it! By George, He's Got It!! ;-)

The trick is to not put a lot of sideways force on the car while it's balanced up on a jack or jackstands - even chock blocks can't prevent the car from moving if you put enough OOMPH into it.

A rough 20+ Ft-Lbs (no torque wrench needed, just a hand lug wrench or the Impact Wrench set to "Low" or "1" position) is enough to get the wheels properly positioned & centered on the hubs, and make it safe to drop the car to the ground.

I wouldn't even try to torque the wheels to final readings with the car up on a shop post lift if the car isn't well balanced. Sometimes the lift design leaves the car heavy on one set of lift points and light on the other, and cars fall off shop lifts all the time if the mechanic doesn't respect that fact.

(They pull the engine out and the car makes a neat backflip and falls. Hey, it was balanced when they drove it on...)

Once your car is on the ground QED it can't fall off the jacks anymore. ;-) Torque to your heart's content.

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The OP unfortunately doesn't believe that vehicles 'do' fall off the jacks 'really' easily and insists on using 4 jackstands to rotate his wheels because a jackstand maker told him so.

To make matters worse he has to do this on 'unknown' ground 'every' time because he lives where he can't work on it so has to go looking for a dirt or dead end road to use.

The OP is in for a shock I think....

At least I 'know' how unstable my driveway's pavement is so act accordingly.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...

Well, today was a first for me. I hoisted my car using a floor jack! Great experience! I had never done that before. Sure, I've changed flat tires before using the scissors jack in the trunk, but that only involved raising one wheel. Today, I used a proper floor jack to raise the entire front end of the Camry.

Wow, it's scary the first time you consider going underneath the car using a mechanics creeper and only jack stands to keep the vehicle supported. As I peered under the car from the side, I stronly considered not rolling in there with the creeper. I was very scared. If those 2 jack stands supporting the front end fail, you're history! Very sobering thought. I eyed those 2 stands carefully, and checked them again and again for signs of strain while I was underneath the car. I did not feel at all comfortable under there, and now understand why so many folks just go to the dealer to get oil changes.

When I saw a huge 18-wheeler coming in my car's direction, I high-tailed it out from under the car, just in case. I was worried that possible vibrations from the truck might affect the stands and topple everything over. Didn't happen, but when the next 18-wheeler rolled by, I did the same thing.

Anyway, I bought the 3.5-ton Michelin floor jack at Sam's Club for $65. It lifts from 5.5 inches to 22 inches, and has a universal joint. It /very smoothly/ lowers your car like it was laying down a baby. Nice floor jack.

I did this in the parking lot of Sam's Club, back behind their tire installation bays. When I was almost done, one of the techs happened to pass by and asked what I was doing. I told him I had just bought the Michelin jack from his store, and was testing it to see if I liked it. He said he has owned the identical floor jack for 4 years, and likes it a lot. I'm just glad he didn't say, "Get the hell out of our lot; raising your car here is a legal liability for us." ;-) I was in clear view of the store's roof cameras at all times, but nobody told me to scram.

I'm guessing I wasn't asked to leave because I spent the first 20 minutes in their lot just assembling the jack and reading the instructions. They may not have realized I was eventually going to lift the Camry. I'm sure the tech would have told me to scram if I hadn't mentioned I bought the contraption at his store ;-)

Anyway, the parking lot is asphalt, but the jack stands did not dig into the asphalt like I was worried about. Maybe the extra wide feet of the Duralast stands helped.

One thing that I was not expecting was the 2 short, quiet creaking noises I heard when the car first began to rise. I guess the creaking sounds came from the car's frame/chassis? I used the lifting point recommended by the Camry's manual (the jacking point located in the center front-end of the car), but I wonder if lifting from this single point puts a strain on the frame that the frame otherwise would never experience if you simply let your mechanic's garage lift the car with an automotive lift that attaches to the 4 double notches along the side rails? That's 4 lifting points being used simultaneously instead of just one.

That reminds me. I'm happy to report that placing the two jack stands underneath the car's 2 front-end double notches which are found along the side rails did not have any bad affect on the notches. Their seams didn't bend or anything.

Well, I can't wait to do my first-ever oil change in March! However, I know I'll still be really apprehensive about going underneath the vehicle.

Jack stands won't dig into asphalt on a cool day. It is more of a problem on a hot day when the asphalt is softer.

Noises are difficult to identify without hearing them first hand, but creaking noises would make ME nervous unless you are lifting from a suspension component or axle.

Show a friend how to operate the jack and where to lift the car from, and have the friend near by to call 911 and lift the car off of you if it falls off of the jack stands.

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Well, I lifted exactly where the manual instructs. The center front-end lifting point is found just after the protective plastic cover. The point is in the middle of a really thick beam that spans the width of the car.

I only heard the soft, quiet creaking noise for one or two seconds as the car just began to rise, so I think everything's alright.

Thanks for that tip about having somebody watch over me in case the unthinkable happens and the jack stands fail. I can't tell you how nervous I was going underneath the car today, but I did it. I just hope this isn't how I buy the farm. Yow! You really place your life in your hands when you go underneath the car. I didn't realize how much so until today.

Are there things for which you, personally, spend a lot of time under the car? If yes, what? Oil changes must not require long stays underneath the vehicle, and rotating tires doesn't require one to go underneath.

By the way, I took another look at that '08 Camry Solara SLE on display at Sam's Club. It has the 2AZ engine, which is the same as my '06 Camry LE. Yet the oil filler cap of the Solara says it can take

5w-*20* and 0w-20 oil, which is different than the 5w-*30* that the '06 Camry takes.

I wouldn't put a 20-weight oil in my car, but, like I've said before, I would possibly consider a 0w-30 in place of the customary 5w-30. What do you think is going on? If 5w-*20* is okay for the 2AZ engine in the '08 Solara, why wouldn't it be okay in the same 2AZ engine in the '06 Camry?