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Built_Well wrote: but place the 4 jack stands

I have honestly never seen anyone crazy enough to put a vehicle up on 4 jack stands to change tires.

When I jack up something to work on it, I try for one corner, use a jack stand 'and' put the tire on it's side under the vehicle's edge as a last catcher if it all comes down.

If I have to lift two wheels, I use double jack stands on each side, the tires and sometimes large blocks of wood under it.

The floor jacks lift in an arc, this leans jack stands and they 'do' up and collapse.

As soon as you put a wrench to something in the air, some major torque gets applied to those stands also. If they are already leaning because you used a floor jack, they 'can' fail.

If they are already leaning because of floor jacks, the feet on them will dig into pavement, especially on a hot day and over it goes.

If I 'must' use a sheet metal notch as a jack point, I use a 2x4 on the saddle of the jack or stand to help spread out the pressure.

Mike

OK, not JUST for changing tires, but there have been a number of times I've put a car up on 4 stands (the cast-and-welded stands, NEVER the stamped sheet-metal stands with a "pin" to hold them up- those things are death traps). Rear stands go either under the axle tubes if I can work with the suspension compressed or under the front spring perch rails if I have to let the suspension hang (rear-drive) or jacking points (front-drive). Front jackstands always go under the K-frame or under the jacking points (on some front-drive cars).

Here we REALLY differ. I don't consider a vehicle lifted at one corner to be particularly stable, especially if the work requires me to get anywhere under it. I prefer to lift both front wheels or both rear wheels so that the car is level (side-to-side) and the jackstands are square against the chassis or suspension with no side pressures at all.

If your jackstands are tilting, then your floor jack isn't working right or you're working on a soft surface like asphalt and you should find a concrete floor to work on. Yes, floor jacks lift in an arc, but that's why they have hard steel wheels. As the vehicle lifts, the jack should roll forward so that the vehicle goes straight up. The vehicle should be chocked firmly in place so that it CANNOT move.

I agree with putting something like a removed tire under there as a last-ditch backup.

I never have concrete to work on it seems. Always either dirt or driveway asphalt which is way softer than street stuff.

Yes, floor jacks lift in an arc, but that's

Sure the jack 'hopefully' rolls, but if it doesn't and the wheels dig into the asphalt or dirt, the jack stand on the other side will tilt or try to tilt which can easily collapse a cheap jack stand.

Mike

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I don't know if this would be a safe idea. I think I saw on the box of some Craftsman jack stands a warning not to place anything between the stands and the car.

And here's a quote from the '06 Camry manual relating to the jack itself, though not the stands:

"When raising the vehicle, do not place any objects on top of or underneath the jack."

The same probably applies to the stands.

I have to disagree here. I'm not a mechanic, but I think it's customary to use 4 jack stands to rotate tires. What else would you use to support the car if you don't have an expensive automotive lift? It's expressly forbidden to just use a jack alone. One must always use a jack in conjunction with jack stands.

If you've never seen anyone "put a vehicle up on 4 jack stands to change tires," I must assume you've either never rotated your own tires or you use an expensive automotive lift to do it. Which is it?

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I really hope I made the right decision to buy the Craftsman torque wrench at Sears. I went to the Sears.Com web site and read some reviews of the MicroTork there, and lots of people are complaining about how easily it breaks.

Here's the link to some of the reviews of the Craftsman torque wrench:

Note I said 'if I must'. I 'really really' try not to use rocker panels for lifting or bracing.

Maybe not the safest, but you will see what I mean soon enough likely.

I think spreading out the weight is safer than the jack going through the rocker panel.

If you live someplace where they don't use salt on the roads, you might not run into this, but up here in the rust belt, the bottom of the rocker panels go soft first usually and that bottom edge seam is always ratty.

The factory jack went right on up through the last two Volvo's I owned pressed seam jacking points on the rockers and neither of these vehicles was showing any rust.

Mike

Neither. I try to always keep two tires at least down, so do most people I know it would appear...

Most folks change one or at the most two tires at once, never 4. It is far too dangerous getting all 4 corners up in the air when you don't 'have' to, 'especially' if you are using a stock rocker panel jack.

When using a floor jack to do a tire, you only need to jack the tire 2" off the ground, then get a stand under there. You don't need to jack the side of the car way up +/- 18" like the rocker panel jacks do.

My last few vehicles recommend front to rear rotations, so only one side goes up with a stand under the rear axle. (more room usually at the rear for a stand)

If they are getting crossed, then the stand goes under the rear axle and the other side front corner goes up to swap those. Then the opposite is done.

It is much safer still having two tires down on the ground, things get really touchy when all four are hanging....

Mike

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Thanks for telling us about the problem you ran into with the Volvo side rails. Much appreciated.

I said the other day that I would not use the double notches along the side rails to lift the car with a floor jack. I would only use the double notches with jack stands after I had lifted the car with a floor jack applied to the front end and rear end jack points behind the bumpers.

But I still think it's very dangerous to place a wooden 2-by-4 between your car and the floor jack's saddle or jack stands.

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Ray raises all 4 corners of the car completely off the ground when he's rotating tires. He and Hachiroku also have an interesting exchange from the archive from April 5, 2006.

I won't disagree on the safety of the 2x4 or just jacking in general which is why I use the jack, a stand and toss the tire under the edge of the vehicle before working on them, 2x4 or not...

They come down 'amazingly' easy.....

I crushed the first set of rocker panel jacking points with a hoist back in the early 70's when I worked in garages and learned then that they aren't strong enough on older vehicles here in the rust belt.

These won't hold the 'weight' of the vehicle, no matter what is pushing on them, be it a jack, a hoist or a jack stand.

The problem is the damage happens before the vehicle actually 'looks' like a rust bucket so at what point is it no longer safe?

You will see, just be careful.

Mike

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Having only one side of the car raised sounds dangerous to me. I remember reading a warning on the box of a Craftsman or Walmart jack stand that said the stands should /not/ be used to lift only one side of the car.

It's okay to lift one /end/ of the car (front end and/or rear end), but not one side (left side or right side). At least that's what the box said.

None of it is 'safe'.

You used to be able to lift the rear end of vehicles by putting the jack under the pumpkin so both back wheels came up at once. Same for a front crossmember.

Now a days they make them so cheap, like the aluminum Dana 44 on some Jeeps, the rear end will collapse under the weight of the vehicle if you do this even when brand new!

One bad jacking and the thing will never hold a wheel bearing again....

I don't jack up 'one' side at a time, I do one corner at a time with the vehicle in gear and the wheels touching the ground chocked.

Mike

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Thanks for the interesting discussion, Mike.

all 4 of his tires up on /ramps/ at the same time!

It appears he drove the front wheels up onto ramps, then raised the rear with a floor jack and used two more ramps and placed them under the rear wheels.

So he has had a car up on 4 ramps with no jack stands. Interesting.

The car ramps available at Walmart are unique. The ramps are constructed in a way that allows one to fit inside another.

Each single ramp can support 3,000 pounds, so a pair would be good for 6,000. But if you stack 2 together (one on top of the other), a set of 4 ramps can be used to lift the front end tires of a 12,000 pound vehicle! That's what the stickers on the ramps say, anyway.

That is one way to get lots of clearance to work under something.

I have seen more than one set of those 'cheap' ramps collapsed also. They must be on a perfectly level and hard surface to be safe.

I think I should explain a bit more.

When doing a back to front rotation, only one corner has to be up on a jack stand at a time...

The rear wheel gets the nuts loosened on the ground, then jacked up and onto the jackstand, then you remove that tire and take that tire to the front. You loosen off those front lug nuts, then jack it up, pull off the tire and put the rear one right back on the front, snug up the lugs, then jack it down, then take the front tire to the back, put it on, snug up the lug nuts, jack it up to remove the stand and drop it down.

The lugnuts get torqued when everything is safely on the ground.

Mike

Based on the quality of so many products sold by Wal*Mart, getting under a 12,000 pound load on those ramps would give me heebie-jeebies.

Mike Romain wrote: ========

I don't mean to be picky, and you obviously have more experience than I have with automobiles, but the way you're rotating tires from front to rear means you're only using /one/ jack stand while two wheels are off the ground. You're using the floor jack to support the front tire and the single jack stand to support the rear tire.

Aren't floor jacks supposed to be used only for lifting, not supporting? Jack stands are meant to always be used in pairs, I think.

Every set of those cheap ramps that I have seen have been bent once used. I have seen several that have been collapsed.

No one around here has a hard flat level place to use them it would seem.... Their legs sink into driveway/parking lot asphalt or they get used on planks on dirt which still won't keep them square.

A former tenant left two sets here. I took one look at how warped they were and sent them to the scrap yard with a load of steel garbage.

The best ones I have seen were made of wood. Heavy pigs, but solid.

Mike