Re: CAFE standards controlled by our Government? Can someone explain why?

Yet, even without the Prius and other hybrids, Toyotas are quire fuel efficent compared to the offerings of American car makers. I doubt the impact made any real difference in how Toytota would have done business with regard to regulations about CAFE if it did not have the hybrids.

Not to mentions, far fewer trucks and SUVs.

And, actually, fewer total vehicles.

Jeff

In message news:Xns991D4A3BBEEE0tegger@207.14.116.130, Tegger sprach forth the following:

The Prius is "green" because by paying extra for it, you have less money with which to buy other goods and services, thus reducing productivity, employment, and all those other things that liberals hate.

"C. E. White" wrote in news:462f573f$1 @kcnews01:

Unless they were getting subsidies from the government, which is just another form of waste. Or if there are regulations limiting the types of cars that may be used for taxi service.

And even if hybrids did work for taxis, how many ordinary people drive the sort of mileage covered by taxis? High mileage within a short span of time is the only way you'll ever recover the excess cost of a hybrid.

Problem is, used cars (specifically ex-cop cars) come on the market far too cheaply to make hybrids even remotely an option for the low-margin taxi business.

I'm sure it does. But that's not the same thing as conserving resouces.

Of course. That's my whole point. Hybrids do not conserve resources, they just provide a feel-good hit for those that get off on such things.

"Jeff" wrote in news:U4JXh.4322$A72.1112@trnddc07:

#3 is the same as #2. It doesn't matter where the energy comes from (human, machine, etc), just that it be expended.

Yes, but money is the product of energy. Paying too much money and not being able to recover it means wasted energy.

Unless you drive like a city taxicab, it'll take 15 years to recoup the cost of a hybrid. This is true whether you're given somebody else's money as a subsidy, or you pay for it yourself.

I disagree. It takes a lot of labor to write a computer program, but not all that much energy to make it compared to the costs of the human labor.

It's actually, more closely related to resources, energy being an important one.

Depends on the price of gas. In addition, it depends on the benefits of decreasing green-house gases, too.

As I said, we don't know the accounting as far as the environment is concerned, but I don't think for a second that this is the same as the money accounting.

Jeff

"Jeff" wrote in news:TgMXh.4338$A72.4213@trnddc07:

It is energy regardless. The time it took to make that computer program is gone forever. You cannot re-use that same time to produce anything else of value.

That's the first time I have ever heard of time being called energy.

They are not the same thing.

Jeff

It sure seems the Greeny car buyers are ONLY looking at MPG and whether or not it's a hybrid.

Newer technology always costs more until more people by that technology.

I do no see a large jump towards greener cars, in fact I see people in middle-class incomes tending to buy gas-guzzlers which much cheaper technology. They're willing to pay high prices for gas and do not buy into the CO2 myth either.

People settle for 25+ mpg cars/trucks now and they want a car/truck with power and comfort. This means they want a bigger car that is 100% gasoline powered.

The gov't will come along at some point and force us all into expensive cars with high technology built-in.

Has it occurred to anyone that if the America driver shaves 10%-20% of their gas consumption that OPEC will simply raise the price of oil to make up the difference in profit lost?

$5-10$ per gallon gas will happen and that savings will be gone in a flash.

I guess some people just what to 'feel warm' inside and not care that their actions forced poorer people to become more poor.

So those 10 year/100K miles warranty are now basically 3-5 year warranties.

Nice.

It is if one drives 20,000 to 30,000 miles a year.

Yo!

Thing is, I split it between three cars.

Buying a $20K car, making payments, with interest and depreciation the car was bought for around $25K and five years later is maybe worth $10K, plus all that repair work and getting busy, in the hybrid's case, finding a new battery. Batteries lifetime stamp doesn't say "4ever and ever"

I wonder what those batteries do to the environment when they're recycled?

Or when they're made?

I have one car I paid $15,000 for. One that cost $600 (plus about $1200 in parts so far) and one that cost $150+$400 for parts. So, I'm under the $20,000 so far...

Let's see how much more the Supra can nickle and dime me for, like a Toyota tech friend of mine said it would...