What's the best MPG 4WD?

Yeah...that could be true, especially with a less skilled driver.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom
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Maybe a pickup has enough weight, but a rear wheel drive car in snow - no thanks. BTDT many years ago, & it doesn't always go where you steer it, in snow. No matter how carefully you're driving. Front wheel drive makes a lot of difference.

Cathy

Reply to
Cathy F.

Here's another one: (suzuki.com)

2007 Suzuki SX4 Base AWD From $14,999* Ground Clearance 6.9 inches... 07 Camry are only 5.5 RAV4 are 7.5 inches EPA FUEL ECONOMY ESTIMATES SX4 SX4 SPORT Manual, city/highway (mpg) 23/28 23/28 Automatic, city/highway (mpg) 24/30 24/30
Reply to
EdV

I know. I'm just saying that 4WD isn't a panacea, and that even RWD is manageable. Notice what most NY State Troopers are driving, and have no intention of changing?

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

I saw one the other day. Small, but good looking.

Still and all, there's no real need for awd.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

It is good advice. Around ten years ago, Car & Driver magazine did a test where they looked at winter performance, and pitted a 4WD on All- Season tires against a 2WD using snow tires...IIRC, for 8 of the 10 tests, the 2WD w/snows outperformed the 4WD on All-Seasons.

The C&D article used to be on their website, but it disappeared some years ago. The below webpage reads like what I recall it having, so it might be someone's effective mirror of the original:

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In a nutshell, the only time that 4WD outperformed 2WD/snows was in acceleration and the very much related hill-climbing, because for both of these tests, the benefit was in having 4 "fair grip" wheels pulling was better than just 2 "good grip" wheels. For the rest of the tests...and most noteably for *stopping*, having snows trumped having

4WD.

Naturally, having 4WD and Snows is better still, but for the simple question of the relative ranking of 4WD *versus* Snows, the conclusion is that Snow tires provide more benefit than AWD.

Insofar as the Prius, I would recommend avoiding it as a potential "snow car", with or without snow tires. Reason being is that there's a plastic assembly that covers the engine pan area that is highly prone to being damaged. A friend has one and he has had to get it repaired two winters in a row, after it becoming damaged by him driving through some of those snow chunks that snowplows leave behind.

A couple of suggestion on snow tire selection:

  1. If you're going to keep the car for more than 2 or 3 seasons, buying a cheap set of wheels (eg, steel) will pay for themselves in around 4-5 mount/dismount cycles because of having to pay to get the tires balanced each time. This applies regardless of if you're willing to jack your car up in your diveway and DIY, or pay a garage to swap out the tires each spring/fall.

  1. For generic 'snow on road' sorts of winter driving, a narrower tire is generally expected to perform better. Supposedly, its because it will have a greater ground pressure, which will proverbially help it to dig down through the snow to find pavement, instead of 'floating' over the snow. Without going into a lot of tire stuff (ie, "a 185/70R15 has the same circumference as a 195/60R16, but the tread width is 10mm narrower", etc), you typically want to go find the smallest diameter rim that will fit your car properly and put on the right tire. Any good tire shop can help you through this process very painlessly. Just tell them that you want: (1) to go to a more narrow tread; (2) for the rim to clear your brakes; (3) for your speedometer and odometer to NOT be out of whack (ie, snow tire have same external circumference). This is all standard stauff and if they don't know what to do, they're not a good shop.

-hh

Reply to
-hh

Perfect advice. You win 11 beers. :-)

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

They CAN be, and my work requires that I drive into neighborhoods all the time, which are least likely to get attention from snow plows.

This past winter was just bad, I suppose. We don't usually get a lot of snow like that. Global warming, eh? :)

Reply to
Moon Goddess

Ohhhhhh...

We bottom the car on all kinds of apartment lot speed bumps all the time anyway. Scrapes the frame.

Yep, and it was a real pain last winter because they left 6-8" of snow in the neighborhood streets that partially melted, really slamming the car up and down, so badly that we bent a front axle and had to replace it.

Interesting, thanks!

Reply to
Moon Goddess

My cousin just got a 2007 Prius in CO. If you see one with "Pizza" for a license plate, say hi for me. (She may be making a delivery...)

Do note that CO offers a nice state income tax credit for the listed hybrids...

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model years: $1972 for the Ford Escape Hybrid $2265 for the Mercury Mariner Hybrid $3906 for the Lexus RX400h $3464/$3846 for the Toyota Highlander Hybrid $3013 for the Toyota Prius

Reply to
mrv

I wish they would pit a 4x4 with low profile tires on 24" wheels to a stock '87 Yugo in the snow.

Why people buy 4WD and then eliminate all tire traction is beyond me.

Reply to
B A R R Y

Cuz it looks cool, I guess. On the other hand, all the trucks around here that do snow plowing have slim tires, like most passenger cars.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

And that is the main trouble in the snow with the Prius - the meager ground clearance. It is the same ground clearance that helps it get better gas mileage due to better aerodynamics. I found this out last winter (in NJ) where we had some inches of snow. I, as I often do, just ran up and down 600 foot long the driveway in the Jeep to pack it all down. Well, it did not pack down in between the wheels and the Prius did have trouble with the piled up snow in the middle. Tomes

Reply to
Tomes

Someone mentioned that the Prius has a plastic pan covering the bottom of the engine area that can get damaged in snow?

What if someone had the car raised up several inches? Is that expensive?

Reply to
Moon Goddess

Just you never mind that idea. In order to pimp a Prius, you must be Asian, and live in either Los Angeles or Tokyo.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

LOL!

Reply to
Moon Goddess

Wouldn't that negate much of the engineering that went into it, re: its aerodynamics & mpg?

Cathy

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Reply to
Cathy F.

Seriously...forget it.

You know, in between an SUV and a Prius, there are cars that get decent mileage and are good in snow.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Probably. That's why it needs to be adjustable - put air springs on it instead of conventional coil springs, and have a ride height switch like a Range Rover. 'High' for snow and mud, 'Normal' for dry roads.

Or you get tall skinny snow tires and reprogram the speedometer for taller tires when you put them on.

If the Toyota Engineers were planning ahead, you'd have a screen on the dashboard display to simply enter the Rolling OD of the tires, and have a function to trim it in for accuracy. Then the computer can also factor the actual tire size into the regenerative braking calcs.

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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

That sounds good. I don't think I'd have to worry much about aerodynamics when driving 5 MPH over bumpy snow in the streets.

Can they do that?

Cool.

Reply to
Moon Goddess

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