Rav 4 question-4WD?

Hello all, I am preparing to buy a 2008 Rav4 as soon as they come out. But I have a question about 4WD. Is it a good idea to get it? Does it make sense to get e Rav4 without it? I am assuming the 4WD would perform better in snow and icy driving conditions. I do normal highway driving (if you can call driving on Long Island, NY normal that is). Any tips would be appreicated.

Darren

Reply to
Darren
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No, it won't.

4wd with all-season tires is immensely inferior to front wheel drive with real winter tires (appropriate for conditions--snow, ice, what have you).

It's far cheaper to get real winter tires and swap them out than to try to use 4wd to solve your problems.

4wd won't help you stop or steer any better. Good snow tires will help you go, stop, AND steer better.
Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

If I'm not mistaken the Rav4 will deactivate the 4wd when it doesn't need 4wd power, and it supposedly has this intelligent computer to determine when it does and doesn't need 4wd so that you get most of the MPG. I do have one problem with those intelligent on board computers since my camry intelligent transmission most likely dropped out of highschool.

For snowy and icy conditions my all season tires plus driving slower than the posted speed limit and front-wheel drive camry works fine. Getting out from my parking space covered with snow is the problem so I keep a small shovel handy. My neighbor who has a 4wd fj cruiser still shovels snow to get out from parking.

Reply to
EdV

It still carries around the weight of that system, which is bad for MPG, plus that system requires maintenance of its own--which costs $$$.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

I could refute that:

My '83 Tercel AWD wagon with 'traction' tires did quite an amazing job in snow, so much that I was able to drive through a 3.5' drift in over 2 feet of unplowed snow.

Reply to
Hachiroku

I drove 4wd company-owned trucks for over 25 years into and out of remote microwave repeater sites and on railroad right-of-ways in all kinds of weather. These trucks were both SUV type and pickups. I have NEVER owned and will NEVER own a 4wd vehicle. Here's why:

  1. 4wd will get you stuck worse than 2wd. It will get you into the mess (snow or mud) so much farther that you won't be able to get out without help.
  2. The mileage is worse even in 2wd mode. You have about 1200 lbs more weight to carry around ALL the time. Handling is also worse, 90% of that extra weight is on the front axle.
  3. Maintenance is much higher. If you get 75k miles out of the CV joints on the front axle, you're lucky. Leave it in 4wd-locked mode for 15 or 20 miles on a hard surfaced, dry road and you can figure on replacing some very expensive CV joints and plastic gears in the transfer case.
  4. Tire costs are higher than on comparable 2wd models. The extra weight on the front end will cause your tires to cup. This happens regardless of the type of suspension on the front (solid axle or independent). The only thing that I've found that helps is to replace the OEM shocks with heavy-duty, double action ones.
  5. Most 4wd American trucks do not have provisions for complete front-end alignment. If you need to change camber (sp?), you have to bend things.
  6. If your vehicle has anti-lock brakes, that feature is disabled in
4wd-locked mode.

  1. There is NO improvement in handling in snow using 4wd over 2wd. There is a great improvement in traction/accelleration away from a stop but no improvement in braking. That will get you in trouble FAST.

  2. The ride is rougher.

If you feel you have to have one, go for it. Just don't say you weren't warned.

Jack

Reply to
Retired VIP

LOL! I once read a definition for 4WD as a system that allows you to get stuck in areas inaccessible to tow trucks.

I believe that ABS is not disabled in Toyotas in 4WD locked mode.

Reply to
Ray O

Well if you are not careful this may be true. However, I've never gotten stuck when driving a 4WD vehicle. I used to routinely get stuck driving 2WD pick-ups. I'll never buy another 2WD truck to use on my farm.

I agree the mileage is somewhat worse (maybe 1 to 2 mpg assuming you don't also get a lower axle ratio than for the 2WD truck). I think you are over stating the difference in weight. For a 2007 Tacoma, the 4WD version weighs only 225 lb more than the equivalent 2WD version (according to Cars.com).

I've owned six 4WD vehicles. Total mileage on all of them combined is around 500,000 miles (one had 147,000 alone). I've never had to replace a CV joint or any parts of the 4WD system.

Never a problem for me. I owned two Ford Expeditions. For both the original OE tires lated 60k miles and I only repalced them becasue I wanted something better. When replaced they still had more than enough tread to pass inspection. On my current Frontier, the front tires are wearing great. The rears are a problem. Inflated per Nissan's specs, they have worn rapidly in the center.

Which American 4WD truck are you talking about? 1980 F150's? Current

4WD half ton trucks have IFS and are just as adjustable as the 2WD version. Heavy duty trucks with solid front axles have bushing to allow for front end adjustment - but they almost never needed. I have not need a front end alignment on any of my trucks in the last 20 years.

I am not sure what you mean by "locked" mode. I know that for my last Expedition, the ABS continued to operate if I was in 4WD high (of course the ABS was also active in the automatic 4WD or the 2WD modes). ABS was disabled in the 4WD Low mode, but you'd expect that wouldn't you? The ABS is also active when my Frontier is in 4WD High.

I disagree. Often in low traction situations (snow or mud), the rear of my 2WD trucks tend to fishtail sharply. With 4WD this is rarely a proplem. Certainly there are cases where even 4WD is not enough - a couple of years back I was on ice so slick that even with 4WD it was impossible to go straight ahead. However, in my experience, 4WD gives you the best oppurtunity to keep moving in low traction situations.

Maybe in some vehicles, but I ridden in both 2WD and 4WD Expeditions, and there was not significant difference in ride quality. I currently own an AWD Fusion. I test drove both FWD and AWD versions, and there was no detectable difference in the ride. When test driving Nissan Frontiers, I thought the 4WD version actually rode better than the 2WD version, but the tires and trim level were not the same, so that might not be a fair comparison.

If you are just going to ride around on dry pavement, 4WD is a waste. For many people front wheel drive cars are adequate for almost all situations. However, in low traction situations, 2WD pick-ups are a joke (at least these days). If you are going to regularly drive in low traction situations, 4WD gives you the best chance of making it home. However, for a RAV4 I think 90% of all owners don't actually need 4WD (actually the RAV4s have AWD - All Wheel Drive, instead of the truck like 4WD). RAV4s are nice vehicles, but, in my opinion, they are not true SUVs. They are more of a tall Camry wagon than a truck. If the RAV4 is to be used in an area that has hilly terrain and gets lots of snow, then I recommend the AWD. If the vehicle is going to be mostly driven on relatively flat pavement, or an area with little snow, I'd recommend the front wheel drive version. If the vehicle is going to go off road or be driven on poor quality dirt roads frequently, then I'd suggest a 4Runner instead.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

A whole bunch snipped.

He asked for tips Ed so I listed my experiences, If yours are different fine. The last 4wd I drove was a 2005 Chevy HD 3/4 ton pickup. I only put about 45k miles on it before I retired.

When you don't have a choice as to going into a mess of snow or mud,

4wd 'might' get you through when 2wd won't. That's why the company supplied us with 4wd trucks. But you will end up walking in at least 50% of the time and waiting on a tow truck when the job is done.

4wd-locked mode is where the transfer case is NOT acting like a differential and has locked the front drive and the rear drive axles together. Anti-lock brakes can't function if the axles are locked together so they are disabled. All of the 4wd trucks I've driven lock the transfer case when in 4wd High or Low. I have seen some that don't, army jeeps and duce and a half's come to mind, but those are full-time all wheel drive and mine weren't.

As I said, if he really HAS to have 4wd, then go for it. But don't expect to get the performance, handling and gas mileage of 2wd.

Jack

Reply to
Retired VIP

Thanks everyone for all the helpful tips. There were several points mentioned that I hadn't even thought about. My main concern is about driving in snow and ice, since here in NY we sometimes have alot of it from Nov-Mar. I am from SE TX, and I never had to drive in winter weather until I moved out here in 1999, and bought my 2000 Echo. So, gathering from all the previous comments, is the general consensus that 4WD is not that useful driving in snow and ice? If so, then exactly what is 4WD meant for? Pardon my ignorance, but I have done most of my driving in SE TX, where it is flat, with no icy driving conditions. I just want to get the best winter driving performance from the Rav 4 when I buy it. Thanks again!

Darren

Reply to
Darren

4wd *may* help you go. It will NOT help you stop or steer.

Physics still works.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

On Tues, 31 Jul 2007 18:29:44 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"

Actually, it can.

*If* the vehicle has a manual transmission, and the sophisticated driver understands the physics of compression braking with four wheels. The same was true for my AWD, manual tranny Subies.

Rarely are both true, so in most cases you're right.

Automatic transmissions are the bane of of the slippery surface driver.

Reply to
Bonehenge (B A R R Y)

Agreed.

But then, a similar advantage holds for manual trans 2wd vehicles vs. auto trans 2wd vehicles.

My 92 Civic Si went great in the snow.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

Absolutely! Right On!

Giving up total control of the vehicle (clutch pedal) requires all that fancy traction control stuff.

You can feather a clutch...

Reply to
Bonehenge (B A R R Y)

If you are pretty sure that you are going to get a Rav4, I recommend that you do some research on resale value of FWD Rav4's vs. AWD Rav4's in your area. If an AWD Rav4 holds a bigger percentage of its value, then it may make sense to get the AWD version. The discussion of snow tires on a 2WD vehicle vs. all-season tires on a 4WD vehicles generally omits a 3rd option, and that is snow tires on a 4WD vehicle.

If your driving experience in snow and ice is limited, then AWD may be worth the extra acquisition and maintenance expense. Of course, people here will tell you to get experience by practicing on empty roads and lots in the snow, and if they don't, I will. AWD or snow tires are no substitute for experience, skill, and common sense when driving in poor road conditions.

Reply to
Ray O

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