Have any of you seen this documentary?
It's really interesting and is relevant to some of the things we've talked about here, including the higher tech batteries they're working on now.
But it seems that back then, Toyota helped kill electric cars.
It's a shame.
Toyota didn't kill the electric car, the gasoline engine did. Electric cars were selling great around 1900, they were the most practical automobiles then available. Their shortcomings were compairable to the shortcomings of the vehicle they were replacing. They had limited range but so does a horse. They were slow and so was a horse. They were uncomfortable as was a horse.
Practical gasoline engines did away with most of the shortcomings of the electric car and that is what killed the electric car. And it is why the electric car will always be a footnote as long as their is gasoline to power cars.
Jack
No, you're talking ancient history. See this documentary:
It's outrageous what happened. Rent it and see!
Is this that documentary about the GM car that they stored in the desert for a few years and then destroyed?
The only thing I can figure is that GM discovered something wrong with the cars and wanted to get rid of them before anyone found out...
Yup its a nice movie and a great car for regular city driving. You can see that the owners were very unhappy when they turned over their cars at the end of the lease. The GM office in Burbank CA where they protested was just a few blocks from my apartment. When I left California a year ago, there were still many electric charging stations around the city, but I'm not sure if those were still connected to a power source. An electric car wont work for me, my current commute is 30 miles one way and I dont think there will allow charging in my workplace =)
The main problem with electric cars is the 1.5 - 3.0 gallon fuel tank. I don't mean that literally, but a battery pack can put out only as much energy as that much gasoline.
Show me the electric car that can go 300 to 400 miles before it needs to sit for 8 hours and recharge. Show me an electric car that can refuel in about 10 minutes and then go for another 300 to 400 miles like my Corolla. And don't talk to me about hybrids, they are gasoline powered cars just like my Corolla.
Yes, I was talking about ancient history. I said in 1900 electric cars sold well and I listed the reasons. I also listed the reasons why they don't sell very well today.
Go back and read what I said. Toyota didn't kill the electric car. GM didn't kill the electric car. The electric car died because it didn't sell. It didn't sell because gasoline powered cars fulfilled needs that electric cars didn't. You may be unhappy about that fact but your tears and wailing won't change those facts.
Jack
This documentary was not "fair and balanced." It was a typical liberal one side anti-reality production (aka Al Gore's approach). It ignores the fact that although the owners loved them, they weren't paying the true cost of ownership. GM built and leased the cars at a significant loss. Maintaining the cars was going to be expensive. If they sold the cars to the owners, GM would have legally been on the hook to supply repair parts that they were not prepared to build. There were liability issues that GM was not prepared to address. NHTSA issued a waiver allowing GM to lease these cars even though they did not meet all the current Federal Safety Standards. See
Ed
It was documented in the WSJ and Car And Driver and AutoWeek. Sad story...
Mine did, when I was working in VT.
When I bought the Scion, a cell in the battery went bad, and I pulled up to the charging station at work marked "Electric Vehicles Only" and plugged in the charger. People were asking me all day, "Is *THAT* an electric car?!?!?!"
Nope, watch the documentary.
Like they said in the documentary, with the right batteries they could get 100-150 MPG.
And it sounds like the same batteries that the Prius is waiting for to get that good a MPG.
In FACT the Prius may wind up being IT, with the right battery.
They pointed out in the documentary that 90% of drivers don't need that, just for their daily commute to work.
The Prius hybrid?
We've discussed this here before. They're waiting to develop the right batteries, then the Prius may get 100-150 MPG and be mostly electric.
It's like discounting the original light bulbs as a curious fad because they might only have lasted 100 hours. It needs to be developed and advanced.
I didn't say they did. If you watch the documentary, it said they helped kill it. There were numerous factors.
No, they refused to allow them to be sold at the time.
Just how old are you anyway?
I'm 62 and retired. But I went to public school in the late '50s and early '60s, most of my teachers were in their late 50's so they taught me how to read! I also am interested in a bunch of stuff, you'd be surprised at the volume of useless knowledge I have that occasionally comes in handy.
Jack
You are right. I'm retired and about 95 to 99% of my driving is less than 30 miles round trip. Once or twice a year I make a trip to the Indianapolis, Indiana area to visit with my mother and sister. The trip is 225 miles-one way. Using today's electric cars, that trip would take several days--not much improvement over 1900 and horses.
This means that I would need own 2 cars. Where is the 'green' in owning two cars when one will do.
See the next sentence.
Gallon of WHAT? Were talking ELECTRIC CARS not hybrids. As I said before, a hybrid is an internal combustion powered vehicle that runs on a hydrocarbon fuel and can't be compared to ALL ELECTRIC CARS.
Holy Shit lady. How many centuries do you want to spend "developing" electric cars. The light bulb was fully developed in less than 25 years. Light bulbs sold in 1920 would last as long as ones sold today.
Come to think on it....the same can be said for electric cars.
Oh come on!! Some mysterious force refused to allow electric cars a place in the market?? Then how did the Baker Electric get in peoples hands? Get real.
This is the last I'm going to say on the subject. You obviously already have your mind made up and it is now closed to facts which would confuse you.
Do you own a hybrid? If not, why not? If so, does it really get 55 mpg or so on long road trips or just under certain special conditions.... be honest in your answer.
Do you own an all electric car? Would a range of 50 to 75 miles per charge be all you need or would you also need one that would go 200 to
300 miles before it needed to refueled?Jack
But 1900 was 108 years ago. Did you resort to backwards time travel?
"Retired VIP" ...
I do. It really does get 55 MPG on trips from Readington NJ to Lacey Township NJ. You can google map to see the route. 1.5 hour trip. Tomes
I have been doing >50 miles one-way for about 20 years...
Not an electric, in the US the car runs primarily on the gas engine and uses the gas engine to charge the batteries.
But, as of current technolgy, it's not.
Maybe they didn't know about something. Some companies *can* bury secrets that don't come out for years.
GM's rush to destroy these cars speaks volumes.
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.