2007Camry V6 consumers reports not recommended. Why?

Consumer Reports: Toyota Quality Sees "Cracks in its Armor" October 16, 2007

[snip]

Toyota's Quality Cracks Revealed

Considered by many to be the bible on product quality, Consumer Reports said the V6 version of the 08tundrasport_210 top-selling Toyota Camry and the four-wheel-drive V8 version of the Tundra pickup, both redesigned for 2007, now rate below average in Consumer Reports' predicted reliability rating. The all-wheel-drive version of the Lexus GS sedan also received a below-average rating.

Because Consumer Reports does not recommend models with below-average reliability, these models no longer make the magazine's "Recommended" list.

The four-cylinder and hybrid versions of the Camry and rear-drive version of the GS scored above average in reliability and will continue to with their Recommended rating.

The problem is with the new U-series transmission for the V6 camry. These junk transmissions "skip gears" or "flare", so when you step on the gas, the engine just revs and the car doesn't move like it shifted into neutral by itself.

It's been reported that Toyota will give you ONE free transmission, and if the problem comes back you're on your own (there is no known cure, just your roulette luck). The dealer suddenly won't recognize you any more. It's $4000+ to replace it.

IMO Toyota should just license GM's new 6T series Hydramatic transmission for the V6.

I have the AW 6 speed (same family as the Camry 6 speed) in a 2007 Ford Fusion. It has shown none of the weirdness Camry owners blame on the transmission. Seems to me the problem must be the powertrain control software and not the actual transmission mechanicals.

Ed

According to the following listsings, I think the Camry U-series for the V6 and the Mazda-6 are different transmissions. The Toyota U- series, then, is probably a cheap version that Aisin doesn't want its name on (AW BG6, TF-80SC).

The Aisin 6 is used on: (2005-present Aisin 6-speed) Ford Five Hundred, Ford Fusion, Mercury Montego, Mercury Milan, Lincoln Zephyr, Lincoln MKZ, Mazda6, Mazda CX-7, Mazda CX-9, Land Rover LR2 -

Another source, wikipedia is probably not up to date, because the two Aisin 6 speeds FWD automatics are as follows:

February 2005- BG6 -- 6-speed * Toyota Avensis, Toyota Corolla, Toyota RAV4, Mazda Mazda6, Mazda Mazda5, Mitsubishi Eclipse, Mitsubishi Grandis

October 2005- TF-80SC -- 6-speed * Alfa Romeo 159, Alfa Romeo Brera, Alfa Romeo Spider, Volvo S60R, Volvo V70R, Volvo S80, Volvo XC90, Peugeot 407

I see that you are right. The Camry's U660E and the A-W 6 Speed Automatic used in the Ford Fusion (and other Ford products) are not from the same family. I guess the only thing they have in common is they are both A-W designs. I still wonder why Toyota would be having problems and Ford doesn't. Apparently A-W knows how to do a proper 6 speed. I assume Toyota must have been looking for some special advatage with their U660E and it hasn't worked out, yet.

Ed

More over, Toyota knew of the V6 transmission problem from the beginning, but decided to market the car anyway:

Toyota CEO Admits Toyota Marketed Camry With Bad Transmissions

Consumer Reports' decision not to recommend three Toyota vehicles does not signal an end to the company's bulletproof quality reputation, Toyota's U.S. sales chief told Automotive News today.

Lentz said that despite the high-profile rebuff by the respected magazine, the Japanese automaker still placed first in reliability in six of eight categories, and 44 percent of the magazine's recommended vehicles are Toyotas.

"The bad news from our perspective is we never want to see vehicles on the 'not recommend' list," he said.

Lentz said that because of problems Toyota found with an automatic transmission, he was not surprised the V-6 Camry failed to make the recommended list. He said the problem was with design, not manufacturing, and was quickly corrected.

"We knew in the very beginning we had a transmission issue with that vehicle," he said.

The problem caused the vehicle to either get stuck in second gear or shift past second gear roughly. The problem can be traced to a snap ring that holds the transmission housing together.

"I don't think it's going to have a long-term impact on the overall view of Toyota as a reliable product," Lentz said.

On Mar 10, 7:20 pm, "Ed White" wrote: [snip] Apparently A-W knows how to do a proper 6 speed. I assume Toyota

If you don't do a lot of city driving, the four cylinder non-hybrid is a great choice. You get very good gas mileage, decent performance, and they cost a lot less. I've never really 'gotten' why people who want a Camry want one with lots of extra horsepower...

Go with the hybrid. My wife has a 2008 and it gets about 35 miles per gallon in city stop and go and highway driving. Great car.

Great! But how MUCH more did you have to pay for the hybrid, compared to a NON hybrid?

"mjc13 @verizon.net>"

Well, Fujitsu-ten is not the company you'll go to for audio-nav systems. But they're like Delphi electronics to GM, so that's what you get. Even a courtesy driver in a Sienna told me the oem nav stinks. I use an older, portable Garmin Nuvi 350 with Sirf III antenna and NavTeq map. Still great and get free driver software updates.

We paid around $29k for it equipped with leather, navigation, etc. Pretty much the same equipment and price as the XLS with 6 cylinder but we get less power but much better mileage. My wife would never have been satisfied with the 4 cylinder non hybrid camry acceleration. The only disappointment in the car is the navigation system. It sucks compared to Honda's system. In fact it sucks compared to my Magellan 3200 which costs about $200.

"mjc13 @verizon.net>" "

Did your wife actually try the 4 cylinder Camry? Both my SO and Sister have new style 4 cylinder RAV4s (same engine & transmission as the Camry in a larger/heavier vehicle) and I don't see any problem at all with acceleration. If you drive 15k miles per year, you might save $500 a year on fuel. I am guessing that you could have purchased a 4 cyl Camry with must (but no all) the same options for $5k to $7k less. Unless you drive a lot, it seems to me it will be 8 to 10 years before the hybrid can be shown to be close to a break even proposition (and this assume similar repair and maintenance requirements).

As for the Camry, the 0-60 for the 4 cyl was 9.6 sec, hybrid 8.5 sec and V-6 7.1 sec. I suppose 1.1 sec 0-60 is significant, but does your wife always drive with her foot on the floor? The quarter mile times were 17.5 sec, 16.6 sec, and 15.5 sec. There was almost no difference in the 0-30 times (3.7, 3.5, 3.3). I also wonder what happens around town in continual stop and go driving. I would guess that eventually the hybrid's performance would start to degrade during a particular trip with a lot of stop and go driving. It might be interesting to plot the 0-30 time for the hybrid over four or five back to back to back runs with a 10 second pause between runs.

Ed

The only time the hybrid doesn't get great mileage is before it warms up on a cold day. My wife's commute is about 1/2 hour of stop and go (mostly stopped) and she has no trouble getting 34 to 35 miles per gallon. The car often can hits 40 mpg on non- stop and go local trips which makes up for the times that it is warming up and not using the battery in cold weather. We haven't had it during the summer yet so I cannot tell you how it will do with the ac running. By the way it has auto climate control.

I get over 40mpg on my 4 cyl Camry on the road on long trips, but my daily commute (10 miles mostly highway) it's pretty crappy (low 20's), pretty much the same as our 6 cyl sonata (23mpg, but can't that car to get over 30 on the long trips), I guess the cold engine really hurts the mileage.

As far as 4 vs 6cyl, even at todays gay prices, the money you save is pretty insignificant compared to the price you pay for the car (and taxes and yearly insurance etc) if you want the 6, go for it. The RAV

4 mpg 4 vs 6 cyl is only 1mpg (probably the engine weight is reason for the difference).

One of the trips my wife makes when she's late in the morning (i.e. frequently) is a slow speed (