ideas on struts

Try searching this group for "strut mount" - this topic is raised regularly. What the mechanic is calling strut plate is more commonly referred to as strut mount. It is the part at the top of the strut that bolts to the inner fender (unibody frame) and carries the weight of the car plus contains a bearing to allow the strut to turn with the wheel. If the bearing has excessive clearance, you'll hear the rattle. Toyota designed a revised part improve longevity for this component. Others will differ, but if you want to preserve original ride quality, use the Toyota part - they'll fit and function like the original. Replace struts in pairs - like tires or brakes, although you could probably get rid of the rattle just by changing the strut mount. Before you do that, check to make sure the sway bar bushings are good - that's another potential source of rattling noise and they cost a lot less to change. Regarding finding the right part, Toyota will have a specific part number for that strut for your vehicle. Aftermarket manufacturers will tell you their part will fit, and it probably will, but they generally manufacture fewer parts to cover a wider range of applications. For example, they may have the same strut for 4 and 6 cylinder engines.

hello Daniel, I was looking at struts online and I saw strut assembly and strut bearing what is the difference between the two. I needed struts? also there was a struts with bearing and without bearing what does that mean. thanks Roger

I understand budgets. Your 99 with 95k miles has another 100k of reasonably touble free driving. Struts, brakes, radiator, waterpump and a few more is routine maintenance. I live where there is an 8% sales tax. The license and tax on a new car is about twice what you'd spend on front and rear struts. So do the 2 front now and the 2 rear in 6 months.

Replace all 4 you will notice a major difference.

Sometimes companies like Monroe sell the strut with the strut mount already attached - that could be what you're seeing. If you post the link we'd know. When I purchased my Camry with recently installed Monroe SenSaTrac I paid to have them removed and the Toyota struts installed. There was a real jolt that traveled all the way up through the steering wheel at a certain bridge each morning, and I couldn't believe the car was designed to ride that way. Perhaps it's just me, but I am very impressed with the engineering and design effort in the Camry. Every little detail has been fussed over. I can look inside the back of the rear fender, where most people will never see, and the wiring is immaculate. The design of the filter media, and the valving, viscosity of the shock fluid, the nitrogen gas pressure, etc, has all been carefully designed. Strut mounts are simply the part the big bolt on the top of the strut attaches to. If you open the hood, you'll see the top of the strut mounts, one on each side. The struts are an integral part of the suspension and they also provide damping force just like a shock absorber. I've had people at tire stores look me straight in the eye and tell me very forcefully I needed new struts, when I knew they were fine. Those were Bilsteins on a Mercedes, and I can guarantee the item the tire store would have installed would have been inferior. Now I also have a

1977 Toyota pick up truck where the whole truck would jump sideways over freeway expansion joints on a curve. After I replaced all four shocks, the improvement in ride quality was dramatic. By the way, I used Toyota shocks - they carry a lifetime warranty like your struts would, and to get the right part I had to specify long bed, and count the number of leaf springs. I suspect with aftermarket they're not that specific. Your mechanic is probably recommending struts because they have to be removed from the car anyway to replace the strut mounts. Here's my take on struts: Most common form of tire wear indicating worn struts is "cupping" - you may not see it, but can feel irregularities in the tread by running your hand over it. (try this with a glove first, to insure you don't get cut by bits of metal or glass that may be stuck in the tread) Would be created by struts losing damping effectiveness and thereby allowing excessive tire movement in response to road irregularities. Edge wear or center tread wear would be indicative of alignment problems or incorrect inflation pressure. My own idea, is that I do not replace struts solely based on mileage. As long as they perform well and are not leaking, I leave them in. A lot can depend on the type of road surface and your driving style. With easy going smooth driving, struts can last a long, long time.

--------------------------------------------------------- copied from someone else: Best test for a shock (short of dyno-testing) is to drive it fairly aggressively - but carefully - over rough road. If the car remains under control, then the shocks are, likely, okay.

If one end or the other tends to "wash out", then new shocks (or struts) are indicated. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The "test rig" that Jason refers to is known as a shock absorber dynamometer.....and I own one.

Basically, it gives you a graph of the pressures produced as compared to the shaft velocities at which they are produced when the shock is moved at different speeds - ranging from a shaft velocity of one-inch-per-second to

20 i.p.s.

Basically, a shock that creates 200 pounds of resistance pressure while

moving at a shaft velocity of five i.p.s will =A0better control a car than a shock that only produces 100 pounds of resistance pressure at the same shaft velocity.

We use these graphs a bit differently in racing applications to "fine-tune" the suspension with shocks, but the above information is pretty much all you need to know for standard passenger automobiles....more shock pressure at a given shaft =A0velocity controls better than less pressure at the same velocity.

When internal valves and springs weaken and wear out (imagine how many cycles a shock valve control spring experiences in 50,000 miles of compressing to open and close the valving each time the shaft moves in or out) , they allow fluid to pass more easily at lower pressures - usually with no external leakage to suggest that any sort of problem exists.

The so-called "bounce test" only tells you if a shock will control a car while negotiating "Mickey D" parking lot speed bumps at less than five mph with a carload of rug rats and Happy Meals.

"Hand-testing" a shock off the car moves the shaft at a velocity of approximately one-half i.p.s.

A shock can "feel" good at slow "bounce-test" or "hand-test" speeds of one i=2Ep.s. or less because it is only passing fluid through its designed, low-speed, bleed orifices and/or bypassing the seals, but be a complete

failure at higher shaft velocities once it gets up onto the valving....sometimes, actually providing less resistance at five i.p.s.

then at "bounce-test" velocities once the valves open up.

On a smooth road, the shocks will likely be working in the 2-6 i.p.s. shaft velocity range....which simply cannot be duplicated by bouncing on the bumper of the car.

Best test for a shock (short of dyno-testing) is to drive it fairly aggressively - but carefully - over rough road. If the car remains under control, then the shocks are, likely, okay.

If one end or the other tends to "wash out", then new shocks (or struts)=20 are indicated.

Actually if you look at most brand car assemblies these days the wiring looks terrific. That is because the poor suppliers have to sell components instead of parts so the car manufacturer has less work to do in assembling the car. Bottom line is that a lot more design goes into every brand car and if you look behind the curtain, most cars are very impressive these days. Unfortunately, when it comes to repairs, the consumer often has to buy assemblies too which can be very expensive.

1977 Toyota pick up truck where the whole truck would jump sideways over freeway expansion joints on a curve. After I replaced all four shocks, the improvement in ride quality was dramatic. By the way, I used Toyota shocks - they carry a lifetime warranty like your struts would, and to get the right part I had to specify long bed, and count the number of leaf springs. I suspect with aftermarket they're not that specific. Your mechanic is probably recommending struts because they have to be removed from the car anyway to replace the strut mounts. Here's my take on struts: Most common form of tire wear indicating worn struts is "cupping" - you may not see it, but can feel irregularities in the tread by running your hand over it. (try this with a glove first, to insure you don't get cut by bits of metal or glass that may be stuck in the tread) Would be created by struts losing damping effectiveness and thereby allowing excessive tire movement in response to road irregularities. Edge wear or center tread wear would be indicative of alignment problems or incorrect inflation pressure. My own idea, is that I do not replace struts solely based on mileage. As long as they perform well and are not leaking, I leave them in. A lot can depend on the type of road surface and your driving style. With easy going smooth driving, struts can last a long, long time.

--------------------------------------------------------- copied from someone else: Best test for a shock (short of dyno-testing) is to drive it fairly aggressively - but carefully - over rough road. If the car remains under control, then the shocks are, likely, okay.

If one end or the other tends to "wash out", then new shocks (or struts) are indicated. ================================== The "test rig" that Jason refers to is known as a shock absorber dynamometer.....and I own one.

Basically, it gives you a graph of the pressures produced as compared to the shaft velocities at which they are produced when the shock is moved at different speeds - ranging from a shaft velocity of one-inch-per-second to

20 i.p.s.

Basically, a shock that creates 200 pounds of resistance pressure while

moving at a shaft velocity of five i.p.s will better control a car than a shock that only produces 100 pounds of resistance pressure at the same shaft velocity.

We use these graphs a bit differently in racing applications to "fine-tune" the suspension with shocks, but the above information is pretty much all you need to know for standard passenger automobiles....more shock pressure at a given shaft velocity controls better than less pressure at the same velocity.

When internal valves and springs weaken and wear out (imagine how many cycles a shock valve control spring experiences in 50,000 miles of compressing to open and close the valving each time the shaft moves in or out) , they allow fluid to pass more easily at lower pressures - usually with no external leakage to suggest that any sort of problem exists.

The so-called "bounce test" only tells you if a shock will control a car while negotiating "Mickey D" parking lot speed bumps at less than five mph with a carload of rug rats and Happy Meals.

"Hand-testing" a shock off the car moves the shaft at a velocity of approximately one-half i.p.s.

A shock can "feel" good at slow "bounce-test" or "hand-test" speeds of one i.p.s. or less because it is only passing fluid through its designed, low-speed, bleed orifices and/or bypassing the seals, but be a complete

failure at higher shaft velocities once it gets up onto the valving....sometimes, actually providing less resistance at five i.p.s.

then at "bounce-test" velocities once the valves open up.

On a smooth road, the shocks will likely be working in the 2-6 i.p.s. shaft velocity range....which simply cannot be duplicated by bouncing on the bumper of the car.

Best test for a shock (short of dyno-testing) is to drive it fairly aggressively - but carefully - over rough road. If the car remains under control, then the shocks are, likely, okay.

If one end or the other tends to "wash out", then new shocks (or struts) are indicated.

Yeah - do all 4 at same time - you have to get a 4 wheel alignment after they are installed why do it 2 times.

You should consider replacing all four struts (~$69-89 each) and their mounts (bolts to the chassis) ~$45-95 each. Plus alignment afterwards.

That generation of Camrys has problem with the strut mounts. And that's probably where the rattle is coming from. I'd go with Monroe mounts instead of Toyota or KYB.

Underneath the front strut mounts are bearings, which allow the strut assemblies to turn. Below the strut mount and the bearing is the bearing plate (or upper spring seat) and then the coil spring and the lower spring seat (welded to the strut body).

You should check the struts with them removed and see if it compresses and extends smoothly. They should not be leaking. But this is often not cost effective when a mechanic does it (you might as well replace them). The struts may still be good, but after 50,000 miles most of the damping is gone.

The new Monroe Reflex should run about $69 each at NAPA. The impact sensor should get rid of the jolt Daniel was talking about. But I've not test driven these. Look for the occasional buy-3-get-1-free offer, lifetime warranty, and satisfaction guarantee (including up to $50 labor each to change it out). The older Sensatracs are somewhat on the softer side and don't have the impact sensor. See their website on how to check struts.

For slightly stiffer struts try the Gabriel Ultra. Like the Reflex, this is a new generation of struts with multiple stages of valving that adjusts to different road conditions automatically. Four corners should cost around $250 with their buy-3-get-1-free offer, with lifetime warranty. Look on their web site and the "G-Force story".

KYB ("Keep Your Bilsteins") GR-2 still uses primitive valving. I don't care much for these. Their AGX is better, but still not very modern. Most Toyota struts these days I believe have become re-badged KYBs (cost reasons). I wouldn't pay $200-250 for each of these, but tirerack.com and others will sell you GR-2s for about $69 or inserts for $45 each.

Bilstein I think only goes up to 1996 for the Camry. Excellent performance struts with varying degrees of damping (Touring -> Heavy Duty -> Sport). FYI only:

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

I had the same problem with my 99 Camry. Since I have a friend at a local junkyard, he found 4 McPhearson original struts from a 2000 Camry which fits the 99. I had them installed by a mechanic totaling with struts, under $500. Alignment extra. Since then, no rattles and smooth riding.

Good Luck!

How much mileage on your 99 Camry when this was done? 4 or 6 cylinder? Word is that the 99 6 cylinders came with a beefed up suspension, at least in comparison with the suspension of the 4 cyl. models.

I had about 65,000 miles when I replaced the struts. It would rattle when driving on rough roads. The struts I got at the junkyard had less than

20,000 miles on them. Rides practically new.

I have a 6 cylinder engine and no major problems. I love my Camry.

David

I had the mechanic replace them. My car is a 99 camry 95,000 miles and

4 cylinder.My steering wheel vibrates a little at times. I had him also rotate my tires. Should he have balanced the tires after changing the front end struts?

Whether the struts are bad or the tires are balanced/unbalanced are not related. It is possible that you are feeling a vibration from one or both imbalanced front wheels that were previously on the rear, where the (slightly) imbalanced wheels did not show any symptoms as badly or not at all.

I would either switch the wheels back from front to rear and see if the problem goes away, which would be an indicator, or just go have the wheels balanced, it is fairly inexpensive. It is also possible that you have lost a wheel weight, which could happen at any time.

Finally, does the steering wheel vibrate more at certain times than others, such as at certain speeds or during braking?

Pat

What did it cost to have the struts replaced on your '99? I need them put in on my '98.

Dick

The new Monroe Reflex at NAPA (re-badged) costs about $76 fronts and $61 rears. Or $275 all four corners. The older Sensatracs $104 fronts, $80 rears. If you don't like the Monroe branded ones, they'll refund you and pay you up to $50 each to take them off. See

Consider Monroe Quick Struts, with new springs, bearings, rubber seats, mounts at $210 a piece. It's cheaper this way if you need to replace a few worn out items here. Check:

All four Gabriel Ultras should be about $250 using the buy-3-get-1-free coupon from Autozone. You can use Monroe mounts with these. Easier to find Monroe stuff, but the Ultras are very good struts with automatic inertia sensitive damping. See the "G-Force Story" video on

I don't care for the KYB "Keep Your Bilsteins". These are cheap struts with simple valving. But they are cheap to have.

The OEM struts are about $250 a piece. Nowadays mostly re-badged KYBs. I think these are a big joke because Bilsteins are about $120 each, and Toyota can't afford to put Bilsteins on Camrys.

All above have lifetime warranties (excluding labor). Also check

for their free shipping usually near the holidays.

In my case I had two winter tires (Canadian winter) that were bought new fairly cheap. The car started pulling to the right on the highway.

I brought it to another garage(independant shop) that I knew was a bit pricier but would check it out.

I asked him to realign the car as it hadn't been done in a while... the alignment was off a bit, but not enough to make it pull as much as it did... he took the two front tires and put them in the back... the car stopped pulling completely.

He then explained that cheap tires would do this, and I was litterally stuck with these till they worn out. I went back to Canadian tire and complained to no avail... they thought I was nuts!!

Went back to the independant garage to get an explanation... he said that it was possible that the company who maufactures the tires I bought don't have as strict tolerances for tire building and that some of these tires could be considered as by a brand name company. But are considered grade by this generic company.

I guess if the tires would be a cheap brand, they can create symptoms of shaking, tread cupping, and pulling.

I have since bought nothing but brand name tires BF Goodrich, Yokohama, and haven't had anymore of these problems.

my car is a 97 camry XLE.

Agreed. It's all Michelin for me.