Re: Toyota Runaway Cause: Electronic Throttle/Cruise Control?

A friend of mine was crushed to death while unloading the trunk of her Ford when it jumped from park into reverse. Then, of course, there were the exploding gas tanks on those Chevrolet and GMC pickups. Tort reform. That's the answer.

What kind of idiot would unload the trunk with the engine running and the Parking Brake not engaged?

I had the same thoughts, but decided not to post them. People can shortcircuit even a foolproof system

The parking brake was engaged.

Ah, but a FORD parking brake. Fix Or Repair Daily

If it was the car wouldn't have moved. But anyway, I never knew a driver that would thing twice about opening the trunk with a car running in park. Anybody who says they've never done it is probably lying. Might be some anal types who use a parking break in flatlands. I never do, and often get in the trunk or check trans fluid level with the engine running and the parking brake not set. Just put it in park. Oh, I'm a real daredevil, ain't I? Evic Ksmith I am. Might be more careful with a strange car, and use the e-brake, but maybe not. Park is park. Fords have had a number of these supposed incidents. There was a supervisor who had his legs broken by a Ford sedan in the steel mills where I worked in 1968. I'm not convinced they weren't "user error." Was it ever proved they could slip from park? Has that ever been determine for ANY car? Most likely the cars were left in gear. Many autos can sit still in gear waiting for a slight engine surge to get them rolling.

--Vic

What so different about opening the trunk from opening the hood. Probably millions of people have opened the hood with the engine running.

-jim

Start here:

Much of this stuff predates the 'net. My friend was killed in the early

80s. Ford settled that one.

Most of this also predates auto recalls. Actually, this is the sort of stuff that led to the recall system.

Take another look at that link. Recalls are mentioned.

\

Good article about it

Never found a defect on the Fords. Driver error. And lawsuit mass hysteria. I've done some stupid things myself, but never got run over by my car. Just lucky I guess. But I never drove an auto Ford. Seems with my Chevys once you bring the shift lever all the way up until it stops you're in park. And it stays there. Every time. So far.

--Vic

With the Fords I had, they also stopped in Park. Once that parking pawl was set, they were not going anywhere, but there is plenty of documentation that mine were perhaps lucky experiences.

With certain models of GM with rear disc brakes, you could have problems with those parking brakes. These brakes had mechanical adjusters, and applied the rear caliper pistons manually when the brake was set. The problem was that the adjusters often didnt adjust, and the parking brakes wouldnt hold for sour apples.

The truth is that the parking brake that actuate on disk brakes are not very good. Drums require less of a load on the friction material - possibly because there's more surface area making contact on the drum and also because the brake shoes have a self-locking action on the brake drum. Some cars with four wheel disks will also have mini-brake drums used exclusively for the parking brake function.

It would be great if someone came up with a positive disk brake locking system. As it is, the disk brake parking brakes I've seen are based on those used on 60s Fiats - ha ha ha.

I remember that whole era. People were not careful about making sure the transmission was in park. Ford sent my parents stickers for the dash to remind the driver to put the car securely in park and apply the parking brake before exiting the car with the engine running. This was another trial lawyer driven frenzy. No one every wants to admit their incompetence/stupiditiy was the actual cause of an accident. Much more fun to hire a trial lawyer and sue a company with deep pockets.

The only car I ever had "jump out of park" was the POS Cressida we owned. And I didn't think it was the cars fault then. But since nobody was injured, there was no point in trying to blame Toyota....too bad, I suppose if I had run over my foot, I might have been able to sue Toyota for big bucks...isn't that the American way?. Interestingly, in the late 80's/early 90's the house next to mine at the time had multiple cars crash through their side yard. The house across the street was up a significant hill from the heighbors house. Three different times they had cars roll down their driveway, across the street, and into the neighbors side yard. None of the cars were same (a Ford, a Toyota, and a Buick as I recall). Evey time the across the street neighboor swore the cars were in park. Of course when the cars were pulled out of the neighbors yard, they never were (lever near park, key still in the ignition)....so obviously they mysteriously jumped out of park. The problems stopped when the nighbors up the hill moved (hope they moved to some place flat).

Ed

I did say "most", not "all". Much of this discussion has been set in the '60s & '70s.

I see the word "recall" in the list of stuff at that link. The interesting title is "Why no Recall", which sort of implies the whole thing was groundless.

YA Right and the tooth fairy left that quarter under your pillow. LOL

I remember that era too. Some of the automatic shift levers were very poorly designed. In some cased the pointer would break loose and we had to shift by feel. In other cases the pointer would move with the lever but point at the wrong gear. Then there were cases where the linkage was so sloppy we had to bump the lever at one end or the other to get the damn thing into that gear. I think it was the latter case that led to my friend's death. FWIW, she was a poor gal, unloading her laundry in front of a Laundromat. Her two small children watched her die. I suppose her 70's vintage Ford wasn't maintained very will and she probably set the brake because it was hard to force it into park. Nobody will ever know what she was thinking.

Did you also see "ford faces biggest recall ever' which implies other, smaller recalls? In fact, latent defects in manufacture have been corrected since the automobile first hit the road.

The pointer was not connected to the linkage. It was attached by a spring loaded pointer. The leaver was what was connected to the transmission. It was never a problem with the tranny.

One should be able to tell what position their tranny is in with their eyes closed. The problem was with the operator who does not have enough sense to apply the parking brake. The first automatics did not even have a park position. The arrangement was neutral, drive, low, reverse. That worked great to rock ones car out of mud and snow. Why in the world would anybody want to trust their expensive vehicle to a small $3 pall in the gear back?

When ever I was demonstrating the features of the one of the new car we had sold. I would always ask the buyer that question and remind them to always use the parking brake instead, if for no other reason than to be sure it was WORKING properly, in the event of brake failure.

A major problem we have in this country is we allow people, who do not know how to drive, to teach others how to drive ;)