The Dealership dance

Dealerships are not meant to be a non-profit organization and they do not sell at a loss. All other things being equal, a dealership with a lower overhead can sell for less markup than one with a high overhead, and one that sells more volume can sell for less markup than one that sell at a lower volume becuase certain costs are fairly constant.

If purchase price is your sole determing factor, then you should purchase from the dealer with the lowest cost. If you factor in customer service, reputation, and convenience, then the answer is not as clear.

The quality of their super low-priced Camry LE will

Yes.

And last

Yes.

I found that despite all the hoopla about using the various internet/fax/phone methods for buying a car that, at least for me, nothing beat actually going into the dealership and walking out when they refuse to hit your price.

It's funny, but when I was searching for my Camry LE (four-speed), all dealerships, except one quoted ME $18,200 -- and that was taking into account the $1,000 rebate that Toyota was offering at the time....so the "real" selling price was $19,200. I did several combos of e-mail, phone and fax contacts, depending on the dealers, ranging from a number of people who have various titles such as "internet sales manager," fleet sales manager, etc.

I finally went into my two local dealerships IN PERSON, both within 20 miles, told them I would pay no more than $17,400 BEFORE rebate. They both flatly refused, but when I got home later that day, I had messages on my answering from both dealers agreeing to my price....

They all make money, look at those showrooms, who paid for them, YOU. Give them all your cheapest price, even go in for 1 minute, they will come down.

They all make money, look at those showrooms, who paid for them, YOU. Give them all your cheapest price, even go in for 1 minute, they will come down.

Hey Ray, what do you do for a living? I must say you have a great handle on the practical ins and outs of dealer operation.

did those prices include the factory to customer rebate ? watch out for stealing your rebate, funny dealers give you a sell price quote (minus the factory to customer rebate) so that it makes their quote look like great offer

so the 18,200 is **everything** but Tax/Tag/Title ?

too bad you can not find a new '05 with the $1500 rebate

Not surprised, sales people know you are shopping around but they do not want it thrown in their face? that is they want you to be adversary not compete with some other sales person.

If it is a real quote then dealer is benefiting somehow , making money, meeting quota, moving stock not at loss etc

sounds like another volume discount situation so sounds plausible. The sales manager at dealer i purchased from over internet/phone said that 85% of there business was pre-sold vehicles, they were volume as well.

YMMV but I was once burned by a similar deal (when i was younger and more naieve) a dealer about 40 min drive from me gave a good quote over the phone and faxed it to me. when i drove out they said sorry that car has been purchased can we interest you in this one (of course for a little bit more). so avoid this however one does this. 100 miles is a bit of a hike.

to calculate a fair offer. (toyota have %2 holdback and $500 factory-dealer incentive)

to get an idea of what a car buying agent can buy same car for then subtract the middle-man fee (%5-7) to get a ball park negotiated price, my first pass at buying '05 highlander carsdirect could get about $200 better than me so i knew my quotes were at least $1200 more than i should expect

I just went through this with a '06 highlander

Internet/phone shopping is way i purchased but mainly because i was tired of the run around with dealership games, that is trying to steal your time. The free quotes through Edmunds and others was a joke about 1 to 4 callback successes. I visited closest dealer's websites and sent a e-mail direct, said i wanted a car with these options send me quote, i have time frame 2 weeks (that gave best response)

Nothing beats the negotiation power of walking out of dealership when they do not want to deal *BUT* (the big but) one needs to have a real figure when you negotiate with your feet. If it is a bogus low ball and you walk, you likely become the joke of the day, if it is a real offer and you walk that is negotiation.

Depends on your preferences i suppose.

HTH

The 18,200 includes the current $500 rebate and the doc fee.

I suppose the low-priced dealership coming in at $18,200 was "lying" when they said over the phone that they weren't making any money selling the '06 Camry LE automatic at 18,200.

I think 18,200 is a good price because 2 dealerships didn't even give me a quote, saying they couldn't match 18,200 and so wouldn't even provide a quote.

I think the 18,200 was a no-haggle price. I think it's a good price because CarMax.com's Laurel, Maryland Toyota dealership also has a no-haggle price of about 18,200 on the same car.

CarMax.com has no-haggle pricing, but I think it's important to choose the right CarMax because it looks like the Chicago CarMax.com dealership is more expensive than the Laurel, Maryland CarMax (Baltimore/D.C. area).

Both CarMax's have no-haggle pricing, but one prices lower than the other.

After I read your post I went to carmax.com to check what is available in Chicago area and I found something strange: several camry LE cars, same model number prices with different price 18,338-19167. All of them seem to list THE SAME optional equipment (cars with sunroof listed for much more). What would be the reason for the different price ? Is this just different color ?

What does kbb.com say the invoice price is for your configuration? Make the dealers break down their prices (details!) so you can see how they arrive at the bottom line. This way, for example, there's no doubt about what's happening with any rebates. And they can't surprise/trick you later by saying that a certain cost was not included in their earlier quote.

Ray O wrote:

On a purchase transaction of a vehicle (not maintenance/service of the vehicle), why are these important? There's a bottom line, drive out price.

(I agree they're important for maintenance/service.)

Gee guy, 18.2 to 18.8, that's not much play. Let's keep it simple. Do you need a car today? A certain color? Are you patient and like to shop? Get a price from at least two buying services, and not too far from home.

When you call, have you considered asking for the fleet rep and see what they can do? You tie up a retail sales guy or gal, and they need their piece of the action. Don't assume a phone call will be accurate. Business happens face to face.

Got my hard to find truck at Capital Toyota Salem, Or in July 04. Toyota Los Angeles zone had zero and were getting zero. Found one at Toyota San Francisco, gave a $1000 deposit and was ready to buy. Go to get the car, and the price increased $1000. Toyota of downtown San Francisco was real sorry and gave me my deposit back. I was not mad. I did not get excited. I know the game. I made my move (deposit), and had to wait for their next counter move (price increase). My next move was to buy or keep looking. When you have a phone or two, a notebook with wireless, maybe a portable printer, but most of all TIME, you take your money back and start dialing.

Extras: I wanted the factory alarm. Got bids from $300 to $1000, and yes I have auto door locks. Capital Toyota was the highest, and why not. It would have been convenient.

You can save a bit if you are willing to do your homework, and are willing and able to travel. But the more you ask for, the better the dealer can get that extra $500 out of you. Dealers play this game every day, and you don't. Your odds of winning are slim. Even if you are extra careful, one drop of the guard, and they get that little extra. It's their job. It's how they feed their family.

So, how bad do you want to play?

I'll say $17,400 is about right with the hidden rebates and the drive for market share and new 07's coming out, the current generation of Camrys is pretty cheap these days.

Current factory rebate in Northern VA is $750 -- are the different in different regions? Local Dealer has '06 LE for 18,400 with side air curtains (plus $199 processing).

so seems the doc fee wiped canceled the rebate and you are back at near invoice

in my area rebate is $750 for '06 and $1500 for '05

well according to car buyers secret 18,200 provides dealer around %5 profit margin which is a fair deal as they need to make money and they they usually minimally operate around %2-3 which would come out to about 17,900 so a pretty good fair deal

the actual cost to dealer for the car is about 17,384 maybe less

good luck with car

Processing of what ? :-)

Thank you for all your helpful advice.

In my Toyota non-distributorship region, Edmunds.com shows only a $500 rebate on the '06 Camry and no rebate on the '05 Camry.

"processing" other name for taking your $ as extra profit for them. Supposedly cover office expense and other expenses of doing business. Yup big scam --- as bad as house closing junk fees! Some have nerve to add in cost of regional advertising too and even "hold back" when they get car from another dealer for you.

Pszemol, the options list is often NOT accurate at CarMax.com. You have to call them to make sure of the options.

Their web site is kinda flaky, that way.

For example, the CarMax options list might not show side curtain air bags, which will add about $600 to a Camry LE. Also, their horsepower figures are often wrong too. They show the Corolla LE as having

164 horsepower, instead of 126.

It kinda defeats the purpose of having a web site if you have to call the company to confirm everything [chuckle].

According to this Yota site there is a $750 rebate or 3.9% finiancing on Camry avail which ends 3 Jan 06 (at least for zip 22150).