Wife is itching for a new kiddie-carrier... Considering it... But would love to know all I can about it's weaknesses first. :)
Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R
Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
"Joe" wrote in news:E67Sj.6184$WS1.1762@trndny04:
Joe, I have been itching over the Outlook for awhile too. I drove one about two weeks back - big , heavy, roomy, good power. It does shift kinda hard and early when accelerating.
The 7/8 passenger seating is nice. The 4500 tow rating is nice. The 235 hp is nice.
The EPA estimates... not nice. Also not nice, once you deck it out you are talking $40k !
I am collecting info on lots of other 7/8 passenger vehicles with tow ratings above 4000 lbs - but EPA estimates of 20 city and 25 hwy or better. I'd love to go hybrid, but it isn't there yet - they are doing the BIG SUV's first, then maybe the Crossovers.
All I know is that the first generations (2007) had a shifting paradigm issue which was resolved by a software update. 2008 Outlooks have this already fixed. 24mpg hwy in a SUV with 275hp isn't too bad. The shifting on the new V6's is something new for people used to dino-guzzling V8's, instead of being tossed back into the seat, the V6 is very smooth.
check out
I looked at them and stayed the away.
Your money is better spent with a Tahoe/Yukon.
Not really.
Let's take the current price of gas, $3.75/gallon near me. (I paid this the other day to fill up the Vue.)
I drive 18,000 miles/year.
At 14 miles per gallon, I'd pay $4,821 in gas.
At 16 miles per gallon, I'd pay $4,218 in gas. A measly $600 difference, or $50 per month.
At 19 miles per gallong, I'd pay $3552 in gas in a year.
At 24 miles per gallon, I'd pay $2812 in gas in a year.
Not that much difference for a real truck.
Oh, and on my avalanche, I have the 5.3L engine. In combined city/highway, I get 17MPG. I don't know where the 14MPG comes into play on the Tahoe, with a smaller engine. In a recent trip to death valley (from los angeles) towing a tent trailer, I got 21MPG over 900 miles.
Hey, I used to take my Kia Sedona off road...
Valid point.
MTV - I like it!!
Since this is the third Saturn I and my youngest daughter have purchased, I was curious when some posters here said the dealerships were discounting the sticker. Dealerships here have always stuck to that even when I asked why I should buy from X dealership instead of Y if the price is the same and since my daughter was moving the Atlanta after the purchase. This is true but it takes service out as their claimed differentiator. In any case, could never get anyone to budge on sticker.
But where I found them to "negotiate" was on the trade-in. Now before going to the dealer, we checked Edmunds for the value of the trade-in. Edmunds. It was a 2002 SL1 with 72,000 miles, both side mirrors broke, the center console arm rest damaged, a burn hole in the passenger seat from a previous dumb-ass boyfriend, and a slight dent in the hood caused by something from the road. Edmunds says about $2,800 which is what one dealer offered. The other dealer offered $3,800 which I knew was way over what it was worth.
When pressing the first dealer, they came up to $3,000 but held there. So we went to the dealer offering the $3,800 and did the deal. Really what we were getting was $1,000 off sticker.
The interesting thing, and we did not know this until after purchasing the Vue, was that these two Saturn dealerships were actually owned by the same person. How we found that out was the better trade-in price dealer did not have the vehicle we wanted so he had to find something close to what we wanted. He called his sister dealership and they would not give up the Vue since "they were working a deal with another customer" - probably us and they probably knew we had now gone to the other dealership. So he got a Vue from another area dealer. He told us the other dealership (that we had been to) and theirs was owned by the same person.
So my suggestion is to go around to every Saturn dealership in the area (we went to all but one) and try to negotiate your deal. For a $100 or $200 buck difference, I would tend to go with the closest dealer. But for $800 to $1000, I will go to a distant dealer. As it turned out, the closest dealer had the best price, but since the daughter is moving, no big deal either way.
When we were writing up the deal at the other dealer (the higher priced place that we walked out of) I did try dickering on the documentation (more profit) fee. That's when they pulled out a brochure showing all this stuff (federal and state regulations) that they supposedly have to file forms for. I told her it was completely bogus and said the State of Ohio allows that as the maximum charge on a "retail installment contract." The give a great description of this on the state consumer website.
I do have a question that I am going to also ask the State of Ohio. If you are arranging your own financing, so in sense you are paying the dealer cash, then can they even charge this fee? The state seems to indicate that this can be charged as part of the cost for them to arrange financing. But if they are not, thus the contract is not an installment contract, is this fee really legal?
So in a nutshell, by doing our homework and spending a bit of time, my daughter saved herself a boatload of money compared to the other dealers. She had a lot of fun and said she learned a lot about the process.
Thanks again to all who gave opinions on the Vue. So far, the 2.4L 4 banger seems to be doing really well and after putting 75 miles on the Vue, the gas gauge is still on full. I hope that is a good indication that she will getting fairly good gas mileage.
It's not a government fee, it's a junk fee. How much was it? Where I live the doc fee is $35-50 and is easily take off if you press the issue, though it's easier just to factor it into your offer by subtracting it out.
Watch out for dealers that add junk fees like "closing fees" of $199 (a relative ran into this in South Carolina, and wen to another dealer that didn't have this nonsense). Why don't they just call it "additional dealer markup" since that's what its (because Saturn won't let them because of the myth of MSRP). They even mention this fee on their web site ("
Geez, they can't even get their spelling on their web site right! Ironically though, a colleague at work bought a Saturn at that dealer and got a much better deal than at the one in a neighboring city, because the dealer negotiated a price low enough to far offset the junk fee (as in your case the dealer grossly inflated the value of the trade-in to save the deal). My colleague paid $1000 less than the Saturn dealer in the next city over wanted for the identical vehicle, even including the junk fee. But many people actually believe the "no haggling" story that the dealers tell them, and don't even try to negotiate the price, let alone the junk fees.
snipped-for-privacy@geemail.com & snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com
Why are you replying to yourself.
It's a sleazy way of adding additional dealer mark-up to the vehicle price, that especially benefits Saturn dealers because they aren't allowed by Saturn to add additional dealer mark-up.I'd stay away from this dealer just on principle, especially because the fee is so high.
NO, it's called "disclosure". Most dealerships hit you with some kind of closing fee or doc fee and will hide it when you get into the finance office. This place simply posted it on the home page - right up front for all to see. Again, most places won't even disclose that they have this fee and will add it in without your knowledge. This is not the only dealership that has this on their website, btw, nor is it the only dealership that charges some kind of closing fee. If you don't believe that, then go shop Chevy and see what happens. But that's not the real reason you are posting these nasties and then replying back to yourself, is it?
Speaking of "principal" Please stop trolling, snipped-for-privacy@jerk.com.
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